10 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Sun: How pitching coach Chris Holt’s path to the Orioles prepared him for the club’s ‘big project’

[NickStevens]

We had an Orioles pitcher send the On The Verge account a DM saying " Holt's a genius. Very special mind, it's gonna be fun to watch"

Add that to what Spenser Watkins had to say about him on our show last week and seeing the giant leap so many minor league arms have taken since his arrival and I'm very anxious to see what he can do as the MLB pitching coach. 

[Mike B]

We had an Orioles pitcher send the On The Verge account a DM saying " Holt's a genius. Very special mind, it's gonna be fun to watch"

Add that to what Spenser Watkins had to say about him on our show last week and seeing the giant leap so many minor league arms have taken since his arrival and I'm very anxious to see what he can do as the MLB pitching coach. 

It is an interesting idea having the major league PC, be in charge of development.  It seems like a lot to have on one guy.  if it works it really elevates the pitching coach role.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

It is an interesting idea having the major league PC, be in charge of development.  It seems like a lot to have on one guy.  if it works it really elevates the pitching coach role.

Agree but to me its the correct and really only path. What good is it to have your ML PC have one set of thoughts to deal with pitchers than may have been developed with a different set of thoughts?

 

The ML PC should develop the approach and that should be handed down to all levels of the minors for implementation.

[Mike B]

Agree but to me its the correct and really only path. What good is it to have your ML PC have one set of thoughts to deal with pitchers than may have been developed with a different set of thoughts?

 

The ML PC should develop the approach and that should be handed down to all levels of the minors for implementation.

I agree, just wondering if there are enough hours in the day.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

I agree, just wondering if there are enough hours in the day.

Yeah but I see this more as a top level managerial type of a role. Spend some time in the offseason (when they aren't busy) and develop a detailed program and path. Then delegate implementation to the staff in the minors.

[dude]

.... and seeing the giant leap so many minor league arms have taken since his arrival and ....

 

I mean this as a serious question and we've discussed it several times (or at least tried to).  Obviously the 2020 season has created some disarray in the 'proving anything' department, but I don't know who we're referring to in the 'giant leaps' category.  It isn't anyone in the top 30 prospects. 

 

Sedlock is a guy that got a lot of play coming out of '19, but the Orioles don't even protect him (twice) in the Rule 5. 

Maybe Baumann is improved some over an expectation but not some crazy amount. 

All the LHers appear who we thought they were. 

GRod and Hall appear to be on a similar track as to their expectations. 

Blaine Knight is a guy the Orioles seem to really like and he got a ton of play out of the last draft, but he's falling backwards down the list. 

Baumler has been hurt. 

The 2019 guys haven't had a chance to do anything. 

All of the guys that have been acquired by trade from the Angels (and others) haven't really performed yet in a game.

 

I hope Holt is a genius.  The Astros didn't produce any results in this area. McCullers is the only guy to produce a result in terms of draft/develop on the Astros 2017-2019 teams.  They basically got zero internal pitching.  They had some success with guys from other organizations and FA (Morton)...and there's certianly been some questions about how they produced those results (increased spin rates, Cole tied to some goo).  The fact (it's a fact) that the Astros didn't produce a meaningful result doesn't mean the Orioles can't....but it's not executing a proven plan.  The Orioles seem to want to avoid pitchers at the top of the draft (I'm fine with that, whatever) as a function of their lack of success previously.

 

I'm all for the Orioles doing a great job.  Maybe they are.  Not sure how we have a result to support that yet.

[NickStevens]

I mean this as a serious question and we've discussed it several times (or at least tried to).  Obviously the 2020 season has created some disarray in the 'proving anything' department, but I don't know who we're referring to in the 'giant leaps' category.  It isn't anyone in the top 30 prospects. 

 

Sedlock is a guy that got a lot of play coming out of '19, but the Orioles don't even protect him (twice) in the Rule 5. 

Maybe Baumann is improved some over an expectation but not some crazy amount. 

All the LHers appear who we thought they were. 

GRod and Hall appear to be on a similar track as to their expectations. 

Blaine Knight is a guy the Orioles seem to really like and he got a ton of play out of the last draft, but he's falling backwards down the list. 

Baumler has been hurt. 

The 2019 guys haven't had a chance to do anything. 

All of the guys that have been acquired by trade from the Angels (and others) haven't really performed yet in a game.

 

I hope Holt is a genius.  The Astros didn't produce any results in this area. McCullers is the only guy to produce a result in terms of draft/develop on the Astros 2017-2019 teams.  They basically got zero internal pitching.  They had some success with guys from other organizations and FA (Morton)...and there's certianly been some questions about how they produced those results (increased spin rates, Cole tied to some goo).  The fact (it's a fact) that the Astros didn't produce a meaningful result doesn't mean the Orioles can't....but it's not executing a proven plan.  The Orioles seem to want to avoid pitchers at the top of the draft (I'm fine with that, whatever) as a function of their lack of success previously.

 

I'm all for the Orioles doing a great job.  Maybe they are.  Not sure how we have a result to support that yet.

 

After watching Orioles minor league baseball games nearly every single day for the last 3 years and speaking with numerous pitchers in the system, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there have been significant improvements across the board. Not going player by player here. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

After watching Orioles minor league baseball games nearly every single day for the last 3 years and speaking with numerous pitchers in the system, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there have been significant improvements across the board. Not going player by player here.

NickGif?!

[dude]

After watching Orioles minor league baseball games nearly every single day for the last 3 years and speaking with numerous pitchers in the system, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there have been significant improvements across the board. Not going player by player here.

Again, this is meant as a serious discussion. Most of the things we hear they are doing make sense to me. It seems like one of the technical revolutions in the game that needs investment at a minimum if not full exploitation, so it's good that the Orioles are getting up to speed. I'm not sure what we're doing that is unique to other teams.

We didn't have games in 2020 so (you, nobody) saw games last year which only leaves 2019 versus some of the previous seasons. Coming on board in 2018/19, they really didn't have a chance to do a lot until ST (and we saw/heard the work with Edgertronic/other systems then) so you only really have growth through 2019.

Consider Dylan Bundy. He was OK, not great in BAL in 2019 and we traded him for a handful of lower tier guys (prospect ranking) several of which hadn't pitched professionally yet (so no data and no data in 2020). The Orioles couldn't 'fix' him in 2019, but he goes to the Angels and blows up with significantly better performance than he had here in 2020. Maybe it was luck, who knows, he'll get a chance in the bigger sample in 2021, but we have what we have to evaluate.

When Britton got traded to NYY, he discussed "all this data" that he never had in Baltimore now that he was with a more forward thinking Organization. In 2019 and 2020, Britton produced results similar to what he did in 2014 (ERA+ in the 230-240 range) so...ok... but in 2016, without 'all this data', Britton posted the best season ever...not just in Orioles history, but in MLB history. In 2016, Britton posted an 803 OPS+ which is the best result by a RP ever.

In 2014, you have 5 guys in the Orioles rotation (not Ubaldo), produce what would collectively be a career year. It was the biggest improbability of that season. The core offense (MM, CD, MW) wasn't even good and Cruz, Pearce, the bullpen, defense and the rotation performed their asses off.

It's not that everything has been good, clearly the Orioles have struggled to develop consistency in their pitching (from internal and external sources) so anything that increases the consistency of a floor while peaking on the Talent is great. What they are doing seems reasonable and there are some encouraging results...but it didn't really happen in Houston and I don't see the Players today that we'd hang our hat on that says the pitching future has been dramatically changed.

Sedlock is in our top 30 and again, he feels like maybe the biggest mover of any name we'd understand. Is their a pitching prospect that we think will be an impact guy that nobody really knows the name of yet.

...a guy like Means broke out but that credit seems to rest at Driveline and throwing into a pandemic mattress. David Hess is his friend and went to Driveline looking for similar results and we came back with nothing there.

I'm OK with optimism, but we're sharing results that I don't think (don't see) are there yet.

[Ravens2006]

Off topic, but... Speaking of Britton... Caught a MASN "Orioles Classic" the other day and it was the locker room celebration after clinching a playoff spot. A seemingly tipsy Duquette talked about Britton having a great year and not blowing a save all year. Then they focused on the players watching the TV to see if the WC game would be in BAL or in TOR.

Still kills me a little bit that shortly thereafter, the Orioles would be losing in Toronto with Ubaldo on the mound while Britton sat in the pen...