Advanced Member
Posted 01 February 2021 - 02:18 PM
Cobb and cash go west in exchange for 2B Jahmai Jones.
https://www.mlbtrade...obb-angels.html
I don't know where Jones fits among the system's prospects, but "Jam Jones" rockets to the top of the best name rankings.
23 years old. Underwhelming MiLB numbers but has always been young for his league. Draws walks. Steals bases but also gets caught too much.
https://www.baseball...id=jones-000jah
HOF
Posted 01 February 2021 - 02:25 PM
Sounds like a utility player. There is some value in that.
OTV
Posted 01 February 2021 - 02:25 PM
HOF
Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:01 PM
Jones seems like he's on the cusp of being in the Majors. He was once highly touted, but as MLBTR wrote, definitely has seen his stock go down. But, definitely has gone to the right team with playing time available.
Good deal for O's who are definitely doubling-down on trading any potentially useful MLBers this year. I actually like that they traded Cobb before risking injury. Save some $$, get something in return, and open up a spot for a young pitcher. Not bad.
HOF
Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:14 PM
Jones seems like he's on the cusp of being in the Majors. He was once highly touted, but as MLBTR wrote, definitely has seen his stock go down. But, definitely has gone to the right team with playing time available.
Good deal for O's who are definitely doubling-down on trading any potentially useful MLBers this year. I actually like that they traded Cobb before risking injury. Save some $$, get something in return, and open up a spot for a young pitcher. Not bad.
I agree with most of your post, but I do not think we have 4 major league ready starters, so I suspect they sign a veteran or 2. No one good, just depth guys.
HOF
Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:14 PM
Sounds like the Angels tried to get Jones to hit more home runs and it really hurt him. Went back to a line-drive approach, and the home runs showed up at their alternate site last year, according to Baseball America.
The Jones/Bannon/Sanchez/Ruiz battle in spring will be interesting.
Advanced Member
Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:18 PM
The Angels moved him from CF to 2B. I don't know if that had more to do with Jones' abilities or the fact that they have a pretty decent guy in CF now.
Seems like good insurance / depth at 2B (especially with Martin hurt) and CF (for when Hays eventually gets hurt).
I like the walks.
HOF
Posted 01 February 2021 - 06:52 PM
I think we should wait just a little for the full analysis as the final details ($$, other players), but a couple thoughts before the specifics.
1) In this thread and in the Cobb thread, there is a narrative that this is a trade, not a salary dump (as if it's not tied to other recent cost savings moves). I feel confident saying it's a salary dump and you have to trade him to execute it.
2) I think it's likely that every team has their own internal metrics on value and you have to (largely) meet them to make a trade. If the Angels view him as a "7M pitcher", you have to get him to 7M. remember, the Angels are a team that has engaged in dumping prospects with bad contracts recently.
3) We don't know the details yet, but I'd guess what the Orioles are saving is all in the 2021 salary, not the deferred money. So if the Orioles are eating 8M (half+ of 15M), then they are eating the 4.5M deferred and 3.5M in 2021, which saves them 7M in 2021.
4) IF the Orioles are eating the deferred money, then they have all 20M on the books for Cobb through 2032. The 1.8M deferrals are basically inconsequential, but they will be accounted for over the next decade+.
5) The ties to former players/coaches is interesting. Maddon was his Manager in TB, Bundy and Iglesias recently team-mates. I think it's entirely reasonable that these guys campaigned their FO to add Cobb as an undervalued asset.
Jahmai Jones appears to be the centerpiece of the deal, so a couple things there...
6) Jones is an example of targeting depth to feel better about the return. The Angels don't care about giving him up. They have David Fletcher (.801) OPS in 2020 with 4 years of control and Franklin Barreto (former top prospect also) who is also TC3 but is out of options...so he has to be on the 26 (27? 28?) man roster. They also have a recent top prospect like Luis Rengifo (also TC3) that has 2 options remaining. Additionally, their top 30 is over-run with middle infielders. The new list on mlb.com isn't out yet but you have guys like Jeremiah Jackson and Kyren Paris sitting in their top 5, D'Shawn Knowles and Arol Vera sitting also sitting in their top 10 and 5 more guys like Soto, Maitan, Placencia, Bonilla and Blakely in their top 30.
In other words, a guy like Jones has zero impact now or later on winning for the Angels so if you can burn him on a move that improves your opportunity (now or later), it's an easy call. They were also able to trade him before some of the new lists came out which would have likely ranked him lower. You can leverage the perspective.
7) Jones was already on the 40 and he has 2 options remaining, so he's certainly heading for AAA, at least to start 2021.
HOF
Posted 01 February 2021 - 11:51 PM
I would have taken back Adam Jones for Alex Cobb...didn't fit the program, cut half his salary we owe....makes perfect sense.
WWE stands for.....WALK....WITH ELIAS!!!!!
MVP
Posted 02 February 2021 - 08:17 AM
So much for getting more value during the season. LOL
HOF
Posted 02 February 2021 - 08:31 AM
So much for getting more value during the season. LOL
How much value would you have gotten for Cobb during the past two seasons?
The guy has been hurt the past two years.
I wouldn't have taken the chance that he would not have gotten hurt again this season either.
MVP
Posted 02 February 2021 - 08:42 AM
How much value would you have gotten for Cobb during the past two seasons?
The guy has been hurt the past two years.
I wouldn't have taken the chance that he would not have gotten hurt again this season either.
I dont believe they would.
Elias made a point of saying that for the fandom.
HOF
Posted 03 February 2021 - 12:06 AM
Being reported that the Angels are only picking up 5M of Cobb's contract.
wow the Orioles really needed to move him now.
HOF
Posted 03 February 2021 - 07:18 AM
2021 may differ, but July 31st is normally about 2/3 through the season so if you wait you're paying $10M anyway. I guess they figured this was reasonable value vs the chance of him being hurt or ineffective. 2017 Cobb is the best case scenario, not all that likely, and does even he get that much more than a team's top 10ish prospect?
Of course trading now you lose the use of Cobb for several months, which matters if we can't find 5 guys to put out there or if we are unexpectedly good.
HOF
Posted 03 February 2021 - 07:45 AM
Being reported that the Angels are only picking up 5M of Cobb's contract.
wow the Orioles really needed to move him now.
It is all about saving $$$. It sounds like a deal the Angels could not say no to. They get some veteran depth for their rotation, at a good cost, and only have to give away a player that they are probably not that high on.
Moderator
Posted 03 February 2021 - 11:53 AM
Jahmai Jones now ranked #16 amongst Orioles prospects on Baseball America's list.
HOF
Posted 03 February 2021 - 11:59 AM
Back end of top-20 seems about right. Just doing a little mental exercise of each guy on our lists, I don't think I'd prefer Jones over any of the guys until we're in that territory. The Angels system is pretty weak and ours seems pretty solid, so also seems to pass the smell test in terms of him going from back of top-10 for Angels to back of top-20 for us.
Combined with the rumors of the Orioles contributing as much as $10M of Cobb's salary, I'm leaning more towards Cobb being very close to a straight salary dump and Jones not having much value of his own. I still think it's a fine trade, I just don't think that Jones is a unique piece that made the Orioles interested in dealing Cobb. I think the Angels likely were willing to take on the most of his salary of anyone they talked to and the O's liked Jones the most out of the modest pieces the Angels would consider sending our way.
MVP
Posted 03 February 2021 - 12:01 PM
It is all about saving $$$. It sounds like a deal the Angels could not say no to. They get some veteran depth for their rotation, at a good cost, and only have to give away a player that they are probably not that high on.
I'm slowly losing patience with this rebuild.
HOF
Posted 03 February 2021 - 12:10 PM
HOF
Posted 03 February 2021 - 12:33 PM
This is the first time they've ever done a rebuild right. And why would trading Cobb of all people make you lose patience in a rebuild. They dumped some salary of a 30 something pending FA who is mediocre at best and got back a 23 yr old former Top 100 prospect.
It's only "right" to slash payroll like this if you're then going to overspend your revenues later. Barring that (and I'm more confident in the flat-Earthers being right than I am in the Orioles banking this saved money to spend later), keeping Cobb would have helped the future teams exactly as much (none at all) as Jones will unless he happens to hit a 90th percentile type projection. I'm not against this particular move, it's fine, but it has almost no chance of helping us in the future and shouldn't be thought of as part of some master rebuilding plan. It's not.
Cashing in current assets for potential future assets is a smart thing to do if you don't think you can contend currently. I'm on board with that and trading away everyone going back to Manny is fine. However the salary dumps done solely to increase the Angelos profit margin with no meaningful potential future assets returning annoys the hell out of me. If I thought there was future benefit to the team and us and fans for being this low of payroll, I'd be fine with it. But I don't think that. I'm utterly convinced that it's just extra helicopter rides for the Angeloses. It's not an investment in the future of baseball.
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