16 replies to this topic

[BSLRoseKatz]

http://www.milb.com/...itting/2020/ALL

 

PTBNL from Milone trade

[Mike B]

Elias continues to stockpile infielders

[Ruzious]

Elias continues to stockpile infielders

 

With the expected contraction of the minors, I'm not sure it makes sense to stockpile borderline prospect like them.  

[Mike B]

With the expected contraction of the minors, I'm not sure it makes sense to stockpile borderline prospect like them.  

Maybe not, but until things clear, they should go on with business as usual..

 

Besides it was for Tommy Milone so we were not going to get much.  Take a look at him and if he is just a filler then move on.

[dude]

Elias continues to stockpile infielders

 

I agree with Ruzious, although it is true even before any contraction in the minors.

 

This guy was 2018 draft.  Mason McCoy was 2017 draft and we have to consider McCoy for the 40 this year.  Is Cullen going to get consideration for the 40 next year?  The other guy has already achieved 'not on the 40' status.

 

You can't stockpile volume.  Everyone has the same number of players.  Changing the quality of your system can make a difference, you can't change the volume.

 

...but you're right with your second comment, if there's something there you like, take a look, but this is likely nothing but a name.

[Mike B]

I agree with Ruzious, although it is true even before any contraction in the minors.

 

This guy was 2018 draft.  Mason McCoy was 2017 draft and we have to consider McCoy for the 40 this year.  Is Cullen going to get consideration for the 40 next year?  The other guy has already achieved 'not on the 40' status.

 

You can't stockpile volume.  Everyone has the same number of players.  Changing the quality of your system can make a difference, you can't change the volume.

 

...but you're right with your second comment, if there's something there you like, take a look, but this is likely nothing but a name.

To me, it is the old Andy M. line about inventory.  Likely he turns out to be nothing, but it is not like we traded Cy Young to get him.  Every now and then you luck out.  If not leave him unprotected next year.

[Mackus]

With the expected contraction of the minors, I'm not sure it makes sense to stockpile borderline prospect like them.  

 

Unless they go down to only 2 or 3 teams, this is not a concern.  The Orioles have close to 200 minor leaguers plus their international guys.  The overwhelming majority of these guys are not prospects.

 

They may not have an everyday starting position for each guy of some intrigue, but I don't think we need to give 500 ABs every year to find out if someone can deliver on their potential or not.  Plenty of at bats and innings to go around.

[dude]

To me, it is the old Andy M. line about inventory.  Likely he turns out to be nothing, but it is not like we traded Cy Young to get him.  Every now and then you luck out.  If not leave him unprotected next year.

 

"Inventory" is a garbage line.  It's a throw-away to sell you something you don't need.

 

Inventory you can't leverage isn't inventory.  That's the issue.  The Rule of MLB don't allow you stockpile some crazy depth.  At some level, you can do it off of the 40 in guys' first 3-4 years, but you still need development opportunity and path for everyone.

 

Again, and this goes to scores of other conversations, but you can't use everyone. 

The promoted notion that you can or it's somehow important is an intentional distraction.

 

...and the Orioles had nothing for 'inventory' in 2012.

[Mike B]

"Inventory" is a garbage line.  It's a throw-away to sell you something you don't need.

 

Inventory you can't leverage isn't inventory.  That's the issue.  The Rule of MLB don't allow you stockpile some crazy depth.  At some level, you can do it off of the 40 in guys' first 3-4 years, but you still need development opportunity and path for everyone.

 

Again, and this goes to scores of other conversations, but you can't use everyone. 

The promoted notion that you can or it's somehow important is an intentional distraction.

 

...and the Orioles had nothing for 'inventory' in 2012.

I think you forgot to say IMO.  Call it what ever you want but when you have a lack of middle infield talent, adding a group of guys IMO is not a bad idea.  Of course most amount to nothing, which is what I said, but occassionally you find a player who becomes part of your base.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Dude, is your position that they should've traded for pitching or that these trades just for depth are totally pointless?

[dude]

Dude, is your position that they should've traded for pitching or that these trades just for depth are totally pointless?

 

My point is that doing nothing isn't success.

[dude]

Let me back up.

 

I have no issues with Greg Cullen.  He was 22 at A- in 2019 but that was his first full-season league coming out of the 2018 draft and it's certainly possible, he could have popped a little in 2020.  It's interesting that he's LHed and an OBP heavy bat. He's 5'10" so there's probably some limits to his physical upside.  He was pretty good in college, especially his senior year.

 

Maybe there's something there.

 

....but line up the options at SS/2B and tell me who is getting the ABs on a competitive ML team.  Adding volume isn't changing the reality of the required development timeline in terms of delivering results that mean something.  

[Mackus]

I think the fallacy is thinking that guys that you acquire for Richard Bleier or Tommy Milone are expected to become inside track guys to helping you down the road.

Nobody thinks or expects that, so why is that the curve you're grading the move on?

It's a incredibly low impact move all around.

[dude]

I think the fallacy is thinking that guys that you acquire for Richard Bleier or Tommy Milone are expected to become inside track guys to helping you down the road.

Nobody thinks or expects that, so why is that the curve you're grading the move on?

It's a incredibly low impact move all around.

 

So again, I'm not sure why you're pushing back on my point.

 

I agree with you.  I actually don't have specific expectations for a move like this.

 

My comment is pushing back on the notion that we're "stock-piling infielders" or "building inventory" or "amazing that we got value out of Milone".

 

If the Orioles think they know something about literally ANY of the dozen or so players that have been acquired in these fringe deals then great....but these guys have zero (literally nothing) to do with rebuilding.  There's a dozen ways to get any of them even if you have the best record in the league.

 

Does anyone think we'll add a meaningful player to the fold in the next 12 months?  ....because in 12 months, that will be 3 years and we still won't have added a meaningful piece.  We shouldn't view the Milone trade as an accomplishment in the process.  It's not.

 

That doesn't mean Cullen and Graffanino aren't good kids or even that they can't become something in MLB.  Whatever, we'll see....but they aren't an accomplishment.  We still don't have one.

[dude]

...and the reason I'm pointing it out here is because until we know the name(s) of the guys in the trade, we're fascinated by the unknown. 

 

There's likely nothing to see here.

[BobPhelan]

AA: .219 (.757), 13 R, 3 doubles, 2 HR, 6 RBI, 19 BB

 

22.9% walk rate

26.5% strikeout rate

.141 ISO

120 wRC+

 

A: .281 (.752), 5 R, 1 double, 1 RBI, 8 BB  FCL: 5-12, 3 R, 2 doubles, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 4 BB

 

19.5% walk rate

17.1% strikeout rate

.031 ISO
126 wRC+
 

[BobPhelan]

A/AA/AAA

 

.266/.420/.377 (.796), 20 R, 10 doubles, 4 HR, 25 RBI, 48 BB, 4 SB, 199 AB

 

128 wRC+, 18.8% BB rate, 21.5% K rate, .111 ISO