115 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

Q) Who should have more say with personal choice / responsibility? The Conferences or Players?

A) Is it one or the other? I think the Pac 12 & Big Ten made the right call initially... for those Universities, those Conferences, and those Players. We've arrived at today with the Big Ten, because enough of those Universities (and perhaps more importantly the Players) disagreed.

The only reason I waiver at all... is because choosing the risk to play, isn't just about individual risk... you also have the asymptomatic angle.


Q) Mandated safety precautions you support?

A) In-general... the advice of 3rd party medical experts.

Regarding why you're somewhat wavering, yeah, that's a good point as this will lead to more cases.

As for your second answer, well what do you think third party medical experts think about this?

[BSLChrisStoner]

As for your second answer, well what do you think third party medical experts think about this?

 

No fans preferable. 

 

Bubble for the teams being necessary. 

Risk being taken by the players / coaches etc.  Unnecessary risk. 

Was a story on the Today Show this morning about the University of South Florida on how some colleges are keeping numbers low. 
https://www.today.co...low-91876933538

 

I spent plenty of time on that campus, know how big it is. Was impressed by their results. 
Hopefully we see more such examples. 

 

During the Summer, the thoughts I had repeatedly were that: 

 

1) Colleges, Conferences, etc should not mandate that players have to play. Should give players the ability to opt out. Which they did, with the ability to maintain their scholarships, and at-least in some cases eligibility. That's huge to me. 

 

2) Colleges should not be playing games, if they have their general students at home...  hard to maintain any facade of amateurism if you are mandating your players have to play games, and you are treating students differently...  but that (mandating) didn't happen.  So if players want to play, and they are on campus because they've elected to play while their fellow students are home... that's a decision they've made. 

 

3) When students come back...  is it realistic to avoid spreading events in college settings? I certainly have my doubts.  Large teams. How disciplined? And even if they do everything right... what about others in their orbit?

[mweb08]

Fair all around Stoner.

[The Epic]

I think insurance for athletes should be a sticking point...perhaps pooled together by the NCAA somehow. Dunno how it would work but I think it would be in their best interest to do it. 

 

Especially with the amount of revenue that's generated by athletics (yes, I know there's only two rev-gen sports). The overall money should be there if you could allocate across schools.

 

Foxworth had a good rant about this on twitter but I can't access it on my work account. In short, there's going to be guys that have problems that we've never heard of, and will never hear about, and a lot of them are choosing to play because they know the ramifications if they don't. I don't think this will ultimately protect the players, because if we're being honest, the NCAA never has.

[Mike B]

In the end money won out.

 

No fans in the stands.   For the reason why, check the ND/Duke game.  No matter how many times they were told not to the kids, kept congregating in the stands

[BSLChrisStoner]

and a lot of them are choosing to play because they know the ramifications if they don't.

What ramifications?

[The Epic]

What ramifications?

 

For win-at-all-costs programs, sitting out when "your team needs you "is always going to come with ramifications, whether the coaches want to admit it or not. Coaches have badmouthed players to draft scouts for less.

[BSLChrisStoner]

For win-at-all-costs programs, sitting out when "your team needs you "is always going to come with ramifications, whether the coaches want to admit it or not. Coaches have badmouthed players to draft scouts for less.

NFL has opt outs to.  Think most NFL teams will understand COVID concerns in their player evaluations. 

At Clemson, Alabama, LSU etc...  (National Title hopefuls)... I'm sure there is plenty of pressure (including internal) to play.
Still the player has the ability to opt out, and maintain their scholarship, and eligibility.   If the player feels strongly enough about not playing, they shouldn't play. If they choose to play, and don't want to...  that's at-least partially on them.

[The Epic]

NFL has opt outs to.  Think most NFL teams will understand COVID concerns in their player evaluations. 

At Clemson, Alabama, LSU etc...  (National Title hopefuls)... I'm sure there is plenty of pressure (including internal) to play.
Still the player has the ability to opt out, and maintain their scholarship, and eligibility.   If the player feels strongly enough about not playing, they shouldn't play. If they choose to play, and don't want to...  that's at-least partially on them.

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that coaches themselves will bury them in the depth chart upon their return, "question their dedication to football," and give scouts all types of red flags that will put a third-round talent in the undrafted pool. They're competitive and petty. There's a track record of this happening. 

 

Stars are stars and will get drafted high anyway. But those guys that are ranked 50-300 and below? Those guys face colossal risk in opting out, just as they do opting in. Those coaches can cost them life-changing money, just because they didn't brave COVID for a chance at a championship.

 

But yes, it's their decision to make. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that coaches themselves will bury them in the depth chart upon their return, "question their dedication to football," and give scouts all types of red flags that will put a third-round talent in the undrafted pool. They're competitive and petty. There's a track record of this happening. 

 

Stars are stars and will get drafted high anyway. But those guys that are ranked 50-300 and below? Those guys face colossal risk in opting out, just as they do opting in. Those coaches can cost them life-changing money, just because they didn't brave COVID for a chance at a championship.

 

But yes, it's their decision to make. 

Well... if they are at a University where they feel the Coach is placing undue pressure on them.... maybe it's not the right fit, and they should transfer? 

Yes, we'd like the coach to just leave them alone, let the players make their own decisions, and not hold it against them later... but if the players don't want to play....  don't play.  If they feel the coach doesn't have their interests in-mind, transfer.    

If you choose to play, that's a decision.  If you choose to stay, that's a decision. 

There are ramifications to decisions and choices you make. 

[mweb08]

What if, and this may be crazy, very few major college football coaches truly have the best interests of their players in mind?

[BSLChrisStoner]

What if, and this may be crazy, very few major college football coaches truly have the best interests of their players in mind?

Then what? There'd be no better place to transfer to I guess, and those players should probably stop playing...or start up a rec league or something.

Everyone has their own self interests.
With coaches...there might be multiple self interests that exist before the care of their players, but that doesn't necessarily equate to not caring about their players best interests.

[mweb08]

Then what? There'd be no better place to transfer to I guess, and those players should probably stop playing...or start up a rec league or something.

Everyone has their own self interests.
With coaches...there might be multiple self interests that exist before the care of their players, but that doesn't necessarily equate to not caring about their players best interests.

Ideally we'd have a situation where coaches that coach collegiate athletes, plus the universities as a whole had the best interest of the athletes in mind and at heart.

Sadly that's a pipe dream, though.

And yes, I think coaches generally do care about their athletes, but I think they're incentivized to care about other things more.

[The Epic]

Then what? There'd be no better place to transfer to I guess, and those players should probably stop playing...or start up a rec league or something.

Everyone has their own self interests.
With coaches...there might be multiple self interests that exist before the care of their players, but that doesn't necessarily equate to not caring about their players best interests.

 

Yes, they have self-interests...everyone does. But a player should not be penalized for thinking about their own health temporarily. These are still, for lack of a better term, kids.

 

But that's not the way the world works. Just like the business world, when a female executive gets pregnant, or when a newspaper writer wants to form a union. Everything has ramifications, and they're mostly legal, even though they definitely shouldn't be. So make the best decisions you can, given the circumstances, I guess. "Life isn't fair" and all.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Yes, they have self-interests...everyone does. But a player should not be penalized for thinking about their own health temporarily. These are still, for lack of a better term, kids.

But that's not the way the world works. Just like the business world, when a female executive gets pregnant, or when a newspaper writer wants to form a union. Everything has ramifications, and they're mostly legal, even though they definitely shouldn't be. So make the best decisions you can, given the circumstances, I guess. "Life isn't fair" and all.

They arent kids. They are adults.
Beyond that, I agree they shouldn't be penalized if they opt out...or feel pressure to play if they don't want to.

[Mike B]

For win-at-all-costs programs, sitting out when "your team needs you "is always going to come with ramifications, whether the coaches want to admit it or not. Coaches have badmouthed players to draft scouts for less.

In normal times, I would agree.  2020, I think teams (both CFB and NFL) understand.