190 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I was hoping there was a clubhouse meeting and someone in the damn room laid down the gauntlet. Said no more. If we have to fight we will fight. Yakks in the dugout smiling with Kjersted down. Hyde is essentially apologizing in the post gamer. He aint angry. I never heard any of the players expressing displeasure either. Just soft. Need a fiery leader. Beyond obvious. 

[RichardZ]

I was hoping there was a clubhouse meeting and someone in the damn room laid down the gauntlet. Said no more. If we have to fight we will fight. Yakks in the dugout smiling with Kjersted down. Hyde is essentially apologizing in the post gamer. He aint angry. I never heard any of the players expressing displeasure either. Just soft. Need a fiery leader. Beyond obvious. 

Undeniable. Obvious. Clear as day.

Only to the irrational and emotional.

[weird-O]

Some fans don't have a full understanding of the game. They don't know that all teams, even very good teams, have losing streaks. Be patient with them, they're trying their best to grasp the sport.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Im taking receipts. When it becomes obvious to the rest of you in the future he is incapable of taking this team to the next level I'll be here to say I told yo so.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Some fans don't have a full understanding of the game. They don't know that all teams, even very good teams, have losing streaks. Be patient with them, they're trying their best to grasp the sport.

Of course they do. That isn't the question. The question is are they as good as they are because their talent overrides some managerial mistakes or does the manager bring out the best in them?

[RichardZ]

Im taking receipts. When it becomes obvious to the rest of you in the future he is incapable of taking this team to the next level I'll be here to say I told yo so.

You’re already telling us “I told you so”. Your arguments are silly. Plenty of mediocre managers won WS and I’m not calling Hyde mediocre. Joe Torre suddenly became a manager who could put a team over the top? Joe Altobelli and Earl Weaver and Hank Bauer all have the same number of WS championships. Only Bauer and Altobelli did it in a lot fewer years.

If you have the horses managers generally all press the same buttons. The players either execute or they don’t. The rest is managing the clubhouse and dealing with the media.

[RichardZ]

Of course they do. That isn't the question. The question is are they as good as they are because their talent overrides some managerial mistakes or does the manager bring out the best in them?

My feeling is that the same people claiming we don’t have the talent (pitching) to win it all are the same ones complaining that the manager is holding us back.

[BSLRoseKatz]

You’re already telling us “I told you so”. Your arguments are silly. Plenty of mediocre managers won WS and I’m not calling Hyde mediocre. Joe Torre suddenly became a manager who could put a team over the top? Joe Altobelli and Earl Weaver and Hank Bauer all have the same number of WS championships. Only Bauer and Altobelli did it in a lot fewer years.

If you have the horses managers generally all press the same buttons. The players either execute or they don’t. The rest is managing the clubhouse and dealing with the media.

 

Yeah like Dusty Baker went from 20 years of can't win the big one to winning the first Astros' WS with their core that doesn't have any asterisks on it. Did he suddenly learn some magical new managing technique or did he just finally get the breaks that the Giants, Cubs, Reds and Nats failed to get?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ive said all I needed to say for now. He doesnt have numerous skills to take this team to the next level. Its not impossible they could still win a WS with him but it would be in spite of him. Just like the White Sox in spite of Ozzie

[RichardZ]

Ive said all I needed to say for now. He doesnt have numerous skills to take this team to the next level. Its not impossible they could still win a WS with him but it would be in spite of him. Just like the White Sox in spite of Ozzie

Was Earl Weaver a good manager?

[BSLSteveBirrer]

My feeling is that the same people claiming we don’t have the talent (pitching) to win it all are the same ones complaining that the manager is holding us back.

I think you have tried to make a connection that is not quite correct. And even if that were correct what would be your point. Both statements can be true.

 

I think there are three pots you could fit into here.

1. You think we need improved pitching and the team would be better off with a different manager than Hyde. I think this is a pretty small pot and yes I am in this pot.

2. You think we need improved pitching to give us a good shot but are fine with Hyde. I think that a lot of posters on here fit that pot.

3. You think the roster is fine but the team would have a much better shot if Hyde were replaced. I am not sure any poster fits this pot. Perhaps 2025?

4. You are fine with the current roster and Hyde as the manager. Any changes don't really give us a better shot to win it all.

 

But I don't think a single poster has said flat out we can't win with the current roster and Hyde. 

[Mackus]

But I don't think a single poster has said flat out we can't win with the current roster and Hyde. 

 

A single poster has come pretty close to saying that.

[weird-O]

Of course they do. That isn't the question. The question is are they as good as they are because their talent overrides some managerial mistakes or does the manager bring out the best in them?

Here's why I disagree with you. The call to immediately fire Hyde pops up during the O's longest losing streak of the season. That's quite a coincidence.

[Mackus]

Does Hyde get no credit for yesterday?  He managed that game like a playoff game, pulling Kremer in the 5th when he wasn't pitching that poorly and only at about 80 pitches because he wanted to keep it close.  Matched up his best relievers (who were all fully available because he didn't use them Friday when I wanted to use them) at opportune points of the Yankees lineup and they kept them at 2 runs and handed over a lead to the closer in the 9th.

 

I don't like running on contact in the 8th when hunting that insurance run, but that is a team philosophy so not a one-off decision.

 

Pretty good day for Hyde yesterday, IMO.

[Hooded Viper]

The Hyde assault is unhinged, by some. He isn’t perfect but who is and I like what was said earlier about Managers who changed their reps (Torrey/Baker). At the end of the day it is about the team and how good the players are!

[RichardZ]

I think you have tried to make a connection that is not quite correct. And even if that were correct what would be your point. Both statements can be true.
 
I think there are three pots you could fit into here.
1. You think we need improved pitching and the team would be better off with a different manager than Hyde. I think this is a pretty small pot and yes I am in this pot.
2. You think we need improved pitching to give us a good shot but are fine with Hyde. I think that a lot of posters on here fit that pot.
3. You think the roster is fine but the team would have a much better shot if Hyde were replaced. I am not sure any poster fits this pot. Perhaps 2025?
4. You are fine with the current roster and Hyde as the manager. Any changes don't really give us a better shot to win it all.
 
But I don't think a single poster has said flat out we can't win with the current roster and Hyde. 

“Hyde has lost this team. Pull the trigger now”

Seems like a pretty definitive statement to me.

[RichardZ]

Does Hyde get no credit for yesterday?  He managed that game like a playoff game, pulling Kremer in the 5th when he wasn't pitching that poorly and only at about 80 pitches because he wanted to keep it close.  Matched up his best relievers (who were all fully available because he didn't use them Friday when I wanted to use them) at opportune points of the Yankees lineup and they kept them at 2 runs and handed over a lead to the closer in the 9th.
 
I don't like running on contact in the 8th when hunting that insurance run, but that is a team philosophy so not a one-off decision.
 
Pretty good day for Hyde yesterday, IMO.

He obviously didn’t motivate Kimbrel properly for his performance or he gave him too much rest between appearances. Guaranteed, the same people would have been calling Earl Weaver a loser after losing the 1971 WS, not making the playoffs in 72, and getting bounced from the playoffs in 73 and 74. You can second guess any manager to death when the team loses and players don’t execute, especially in big spots. I already mentioned the 79 series where they blew the 3-1 lead and got out scored 15-2 the last 3 games.

2035 would be first in line saying Weaver lucked into the 70 championship and could no longer motivate the team.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Here's why I disagree with you. The call to immediately fire Hyde pops up during the O's longest losing streak of the season. That's quite a coincidence.

Then you haven' been following very closely. Several of us have voiced significant concerns with Hyde going back to last season.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Does Hyde get no credit for yesterday?  He managed that game like a playoff game, pulling Kremer in the 5th when he wasn't pitching that poorly and only at about 80 pitches because he wanted to keep it close.  Matched up his best relievers (who were all fully available because he didn't use them Friday when I wanted to use them) at opportune points of the Yankees lineup and they kept them at 2 runs and handed over a lead to the closer in the 9th.

 

I don't like running on contact in the 8th when hunting that insurance run, but that is a team philosophy so not a one-off decision.

 

Pretty good day for Hyde yesterday, IMO.

Well I have a bit of a different take on Kremer being pulled. He was getting whacked hard in the 5th. Now that said sure I'll give Hyde some credit for that. Its not like he doesn't do some good things. I just think he's below average as a manager. Others see it differently and that's fine. 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Hyde said in the postgame news conference that he removed Kremer because he was managing it like a playoff game.