79 replies to this topic

[BobPhelan]

I think the real problem is that when a team in the Orioles' situation is winning, fans simply don't want to hear the truth about talent and future. Which is perfectly fine, and I think he'd tell you the same thing. The problem is attacking the messenger when they are asked to give their opinion on the subject. And since so many people are constantly asking his opinion on the subject he's giving his opinion quite a bit.

Plenty of other people are giving their very similar opinions but not getting the same negative feedback. Wonder why...

Pretty interesting that one of the most optimistic posters while we were losing 15 straight seasons is taking this stance now that we actually have something to root for. I think we all know that we're defying the odds, nobody has blinders on, but sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy it.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I think the real problem is that when a team in the Orioles' situation is winning, fans simply don't want to hear the truth about talent and future. Which is perfectly fine, and I think he'd tell you the same thing. The problem is attacking the messenger when they are asked to give their opinion on the subject. And since so many people are constantly asking his opinion on the subject he's giving his opinion quite a bit.

I'm quite well aware that the Orioles are highly unlikely to replicate this season's success without numerous upgrades....so numerous that the likelihood they could be made ranges from improbable to impossible. I get that, and I accept Keith Law's reasoning for it. My point is that he seems to want to take the human element and emotion completely out of sports. He doesn't just say that there is no logical explanation for why the Orioles are winning.....he almost tries to make us feel guilty for enjoying it. I mean, isn't this supposed to be fun?

[DJ MC]

Plenty of other people are giving their very similar opinions but not getting the same negative feedback. Wonder why...

Who knows, and more importantly, who cares?

Pretty interesting that one of the most optimistic posters while we were losing 15 straight seasons is taking this stance now that we actually have something to root for.

I would suggest not going down this road.

[BobPhelan]

That's called personality. It is part of why he has that job and others don't: people think he's knowledgeable and entertaining. I sure do.

Ok, I get it. Hes one of your pet analysts/writers like Sheehan. He can do no wrong so obviously you're not going to ever go against what he says.

[DJ MC]

I'm quite well aware that the Orioles are highly unlikely to replicate this season without numerous upgrades....so numerous that the likelihood they could be made ranges from improbable to impossible. I get that, and I accept Keith Law's reasoning for it. My point is that he seems to want to take the human element and emotion completely out of sports. He doesn't just say that there is no logical explanation for why the Orioles are winning.....he almost tries to make us feel guilty for enjoying it. I mean, isn't this supposed to be fun?

Again, you know he's a scout, right? Worked in a major-league front office and everything? If anyone was qualified to understand how much "the human element" plays into these things, wouldn't it be him?

You are reading way too much into a man giving his opinion, because you don't like it.

[DJ MC]

Ok, I get it. Hes one of your pet analysts/writers like Sheehan. He can do no wrong so obviously you're not going to ever go against what he says.

Classy.

[BobPhelan]

Who knows, and more importantly, who cares?

Couldn't possibly be that hes always a dick about every opinion he spews. See B'More's post above.

[BobPhelan]

Again, you know he's a scout, right? Worked in a major-league front office and everything? If anyone was qualified to understand how much "the human element" plays into these things, wouldn't it be him?

You are reading way too much into a man giving his opinion, because you don't like it.

Again, you're missing the point. Everyone knows his points have merit. Hes been right about alot of things (Reynolds defense, Chen, etc.) but hes just completely dismissive because it goes against his past appraisal. This is a different Orioles team from a few months ago. We're less lucky now than we were before. Playing above our heads early on set us up for a chance at the playoffs now that we've improved. In the end I don't care what anyone says I'm just watching us in disbelief as we keep winning. Not gonna put a ceiling on how far we can go with it.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Again, you know he's a scout, right? Worked in a major-league front office and everything? If anyone was qualified to understand how much "the human element" plays into these things, wouldn't it be him?

You are reading way too much into a man giving his opinion, because you don't like it.

You don't understand what I'm saying. If he said something like "I have no explanation for why the Orioles are winning other than to say it's one of those flukes, so O's fans should soak it up and enjoy it for however long it lasts" then I think he'd sum up what pretty much everyone feels. But when he implies that it's bad for baseball because a team like the Orioles could get in the playoffs and more talented teams would be left out (which is true), then I don't agree. Like I said, you want to crown a team based on how they look on paper, then go watch college football. I personally prefer wins and losses as the measuring stick.

And while I'm certainly more passionate about it because this is the Orioles, I'd find his tone no less objectionable if the Houston Astros were doing what the Orioles are....and yeah, I'd be rooting for them too.

[BobPhelan]

You don't understand what I'm saying. If he said something like "I have no explanation for why the Orioles are winning other than to say it's one of those flukes, so O's fans should soak it up and enjoy it for however long it lasts" then I think he'd sum up what pretty much everyone feels. But when he implies that it's bad for baseball because a team like the Orioles could get in the playoffs and more talented teams would be left out (which is true), then I don't agree. Like I said, you want to crown a team based on how they look on paper, then go watch college football. I personally prefer wins and losses as the measuring stick.

And while I'm certainly more passionate about it because this is the Orioles, I'd find his tone no less objectionable if the Houston Astros were doing what the Orioles are....and yeah, I'd be rooting for them too.

Must spread rep.

[RShack]

You are reading way too much into a man giving his opinion, because you don't like it.

Well, I know it's become somewhat fashionable to say that all opinions are valid as opinions... but I think that's wrong. For opinions to be valid, they need to have an adequate basis. Saying the O's were not a good team was valid in April, it was based on available evidence. But saying you refuse to believe it about any team that is on pace to win +/- 90 games in the AL East, well, that's just being a stubborn knucklehead. It's digging in and refusing to acknowledge these troublesome things called facts.

[DJ MC]

Again, you're missing the point. Everyone knows his points have merit. Hes been right about alot of things (Reynolds defense, Chen, etc.) but hes just completely dismissive because it goes against his past appraisal. This is a different Orioles team from a few months ago. We're less lucky now than we were before. Playing above our heads early on set us up for a chance at the playoffs now that we've improved. In the end I don't care what anyone says I'm just watching us in disbelief as we keep winning. Not gonna put a ceiling on how far we can go with it.

Again, so what? Why is his opinion on the Orioles so offensive to you that you would offer the beginnings of an outright personal attack in response to a defender?

You want to know something? I think he's missing something with the run differential, too. The Orioles spent the first two-and-a-half months with a positive run differential (plus-15 through June 16) and the last month-and-a-half with one (plus-five starting July 13). That middle month, the Orioles were minus-51, when Matusz and Arrieta and Hunter fell apart and the team wasn't scoring any runs. That's something to take into consideration, and no one in the media, national or really even local, is doing so.

However, because I disagree with him there doesn't mean I find him any less knowledgeable or entertaining.

[DJ MC]

Well, I know it's become somewhat fashionable to say that all opinions are valid as opinions... but I think that's wrong. For opinions to be valid, they need to have an adequate basis. Saying the O's were not a good team was valid in April, it was based on available evidence. But saying you refuse to believe it about any team that is on pace to win +/- 90 games in the AL East, well, that's just being a stubborn knucklehead. It's digging in and refusing to acknowledge these troublesome things called facts.

If you want to play with strawmen, feel free.

[BobPhelan]

Again, so what? Why is his opinion on the Orioles so offensive to you that you would offer the beginnings of an outright personal attack in response to a defender?

First of all I haven't made any kind of personal attack. I'm just debating and I just find it ironic that you are the one so staunchly defending him. Thats nothing against you at all. And I have blind spots with my favorite writers too, I can just tell you're standing firm.

And for the last time its not his opinion per se, its how he delivers it. I think I've outlined my position enough in that regard. I'm not discrediting him, just don't find him likable at all.

[DJ MC]

You don't understand what I'm saying. If he said something like "I have no explanation for why the Orioles are winning other than to say it's one of those flukes, so O's fans should soak it up and enjoy it for however long it lasts" then I think he'd sum up what pretty much everyone feels. But when he implies that it's bad for baseball because a team like the Orioles could get in the playoffs and more talented teams would be left out (which is true), then I don't agree. Like I said, you want to crown a team based on how they look on paper, then go watch college football. I personally prefer wins and losses as the measuring stick.

And while I'm certainly more passionate about it because this is the Orioles, I'd find his tone no less objectionable if the Houston Astros were doing what the Orioles are....and yeah, I'd be rooting for them too.

I do see what you're saying. And that's your opinion on the subject.

I'd also like to see evidence that he wants to "crown a team based on how they look on paper". There's an extreme difference between that and actually looking at the play of teams and deciding that you want to see more of them. I mean, how many Orioles fans were happy to watch the 1990 Orioles, when they were essentially the same team as the 1989 Orioles?

[DJ MC]

[quote name="TheOrioleReport"]

First of all I haven't made any kind of personal attack. I'm just debating and I just find it ironic that you are the one so staunchly defending him. Thats nothing against you at all. And I have blind spots with my favorite writers too, I can just tell you're standing firm.[/quote]
When you say it like:

[quote]Ok, I get it. Hes one of your pet analysts/writers like Sheehan. He can do no wrong so obviously you're not going to ever go against what he says.[/quote]
...yes, it is a personal attack. The way you just stated it is not, and you should have done so from the start.[/quote]

And for the last time its not his opinion per se, its how he delivers it. I think I've outlined my position enough in that regard. I'm not discrediting him, just don't find him likable at all.[/quote]
OK.

[BobPhelan]

When you say it like:


...yes, it is a personal attack. The way you just stated it is not, and you should have done so from the start.

Fair enough, I can see how that was probably a little harsh. I apologize for that.

[mweb08]

Fair enough, I can see how that was probably a little harsh. I apologize for that.

Besides, DJ's biggest pet writer is Posnanski.

[BobPhelan]

Besides, DJ's biggest pet writer is Posnanski.

Lets not drag Paterno into this...

[Mike B]

The Orioles are pissing Keith off by proving him wrong. Sounds like a man who will never admit he might be wrong.