329 replies to this topic

[Nigel Tufnel]

For sure that is a factor. But baseball has some incentive. The younger a player can help the ML team the longer they can help the team. Is that not an incentive? Perhaps not as strong as the service time/cost issue.

 

You only control a player for 6 years, so a player helps the team for the same amount of time no matter his call-up age.  What you don't want to do is to waste any of those 6 years while the player isn't really ready to contribute.

[Mackus]

Ok Mackus that makes some sense. But wouldn't that same logic apply to other sports? Because for sure the average age of when players reach the MLS has come down. Perhaps the difference is that the length of careers hasn't increased as much in soccer compared to baseball due to the physical nature of the game?

 

I think baseball has a much higher ratio of skill to athleticism needed to be ready to compete at the highest level than other sports.  And as such players aren't as ready to contribute at young ages as some of them are in basketball or football.

 

I don't know anything about hockey or soccer.  I do know that hockey has a development system more like baseball, so maybe hockey also has a higher reliance on skills over pure athleticism.

 

I'm not saying basketball and football don't require significant skills, they obviously do, but you hear much more about physical abilities in those sports than you do in baseball.  And that makes youth a bigger advantage in those sports than in baseball.  Maybe the difference between the sports is nearly entirely due to that factor and not about skill development as much.  

[BobPhelan]

I think with the new CBA they should set free agency after the age 27 season. Then teams will be more inclined to get players up to speed as soon as possible and can develop at the major league level more.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

You only control a player for 6 years, so a player helps the team for the same amount of time no matter his call-up age.  What you don't want to do is to waste any of those 6 years while the player isn't really ready to contribute.

Well for sure. But isn't the opposite true as well. You don't want to lose time when they could be valuable contributors siting in the minors. Look at the discussion on Mancini. Worries that his ability will decline as he is nearing the end of his controlled time due to his age. 

[Mackus]

Well for sure. But isn't the opposite true as well. You don't want to lose time when they could be valuable contributors siting in the minors. Look at the discussion on Mancini. Worries that his ability will decline as he is nearing the end of his controlled time due to his age. 

 

Haven't look at any numbers, but no, I don't think that the opposite is true.  Very few guys have significantly deteriorated in skills by 30 or 31.  At least not to the point that you would want to trade those years for age 20-22 seasons for most players.  If a guy comes up at 23 or 24, which is fairly typical now, he'll be under club control through age 29 or 30.  I think for the collective league as a whole you would rather have their age 29 and 30 years than their age 21 and 22 seasons.  Obviously there are many exceptions in both directions, but for the most part the guys that are good enough to play at 18-22 years old are the dame guys who remain good enough to continue playing beyond 30.

[BobPhelan]

Out of the lineup since being taken out of the game late on Sunday with turf toe.

[BSLChrisStoner]

He's 1 for 30 in July, and has a .570 OPS overall.   Ugly. 

Still it's 102 total ab's. 

I'm much more disturbed by the turf toe (can be a tough injury, and another injury) vs. the abysmally bad stretch. 

 

Hopefully the toe is playable shortly, and he turns things around over his next 100+ ab's.  

[Mike B]

He's 1 for 30 in July, and has a .570 OPS overall.   Ugly. 

Still it's 102 total ab's. 

I'm much more disturbed by the turf toe (can be a tough injury, and another injury) vs. the abysmally bad stretch. 

 

Hopefully the toe is playable shortly, and he turns things around over his next 100+ ab's.  

I thought he was running strangely for a few weeks.  I wonder if the toe has been an issue, through the bad stretch.

[Mike in STL]

Out of the lineup since being taken out of the game late on Sunday with turf toe.

FFS. Ugh.

[NewMarketSean]

DFA him. Sick of hearing about him this way.

 

We traded one of the best homegrown players in franchise history for a bag of dried dog crap.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Out of the lineup since being taken out of the game late on Sunday with turf toe.

So yeah me calling him barely a prospect may be a bit too much but let me ask you. Any OFers in the organization that can pass him this year?? Obviously Cowser, but any besides him. Stowers, Rizer, Haskin, etc?

[Mackus]

So yeah me calling him barely a prospect may be a bit too much but let me ask you. Any OFers in the organization that can pass him this year?? Obviously Cowser, but any besides him. Stowers, Rizer, Haskin, etc?

 

If Diaz has a total zero of a year he'll probably end up somewhere in the 15-20 range on the team's top-30.  Definitely could be passed by some of the other OF from recent drafts.  Stowers for example is a year younger, at the same level, and has nearly a 1000 OPS compared to Diaz at like 500.  Even if Stowers finishes a bit less scorching, he's gonna end up as the higher rated guy unless Diaz really rights the ship.

 

What Diaz does have going for him is a strong pedigree, both in physical talent going back to the resources LA committed to sign him and in terms of performance throughout his minor league career.  So if he closes with even just one hot month, that will feel more like the true level than this complete disaster of a season to date.  I don't think we need to see 4+ good months from him to be able to envision him coming up and possibly living up to expectations.  What's working very strongly against him is both advancing age and that he's been spinning his wheels for multiple seasons now depending on how you view his efforts in 2020 (which we as fans have no insight into).  Stagnating is as bad as going backwards in the prospect game.  

[BSLChrisStoner]

DFA him. Sick of hearing about him this way.

We traded one of the best homegrown players in franchise history for a bag of dried dog crap.

How he came to be here, is irrelevant when talking about him.

He is 24.

You control him.

He has hit AA previously and showed a tool set people like.

He has struggled to stay healthy.
He has had a horrible 100 abs.

No reason to do anything but essentially chill and see what he does. He will either rebound and become someone you pay attention to, or he won't.


Sometimes talented guys dont put it together ever.

Sometimes they do later or elsewhere.

In the minors under your control? Easy to just see what happens and not worry about it.

[Nigel Tufnel]

"Must be Italian"

 

[makoman]

If Diaz has a total zero of a year he'll probably end up somewhere in the 15-20 range on the team's top-30.  Definitely could be passed by some of the other OF from recent drafts.  Stowers for example is a year younger, at the same level, and has nearly a 1000 OPS compared to Diaz at like 500.  Even if Stowers finishes a bit less scorching, he's gonna end up as the higher rated guy unless Diaz really rights the ship.

 

What Diaz does have going for him is a strong pedigree, both in physical talent going back to the resources LA committed to sign him and in terms of performance throughout his minor league career.  So if he closes with even just one hot month, that will feel more like the true level than this complete disaster of a season to date.  I don't think we need to see 4+ good months from him to be able to envision him coming up and possibly living up to expectations.  What's working very strongly against him is both advancing age and that he's been spinning his wheels for multiple seasons now depending on how you view his efforts in 2020 (which we as fans have no insight into).  Stagnating is as bad as going backwards in the prospect game.  

 

Stowers is in AA but yeah, he's had a great year and I would say is in process of passing Diaz. 

 

Fangraphs thinks so. In the midseason update they have Diaz at #17 and 40 FV. Stowers at #10 and 45. Actually they were 19 and 12 in March (Kremer and Mountcastle graduated) so they already were down on Diaz. I could see Haskin passing Diaz too at some point, but it's still too early for him.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Stowers is in AA but yeah, he's had a great year and I would say is in process of passing Diaz.

Fangraphs thinks so. In the midseason update they have Diaz at #17 and 40 FV. Stowers at #10 and 45. Actually they were 19 and 12 in March (Kremer and Mountcastle graduated) so they already were down on Diaz. I could see Haskin passing Diaz too at some point, but it's still too early for him.

Good stuff. I know some have been down on Diaz for awhile now.

[BSLChrisStoner]

After seeing Mullins become an AS this year, I don't know why anyone would completely write off Diaz's chances of being productive going forward.

But it's on Diaz to change the narrative. Right now it's an ugly 100 abs and another injury. Certainly his odds of contributing are lower. But I think if you believed the numerous reviews of people who liked his skills...its more likely vs not that he finds that again. At least to the point where he's again in the ML roster mix.

But he has to control what he can control and produce at this level first.

[Mackus]

After seeing Mullins become an AS this year, I don't know why anyone would completely write off Diaz's chances of being productive going forward.

But it's on Diaz to change the narrative. Right now it's an ugly 100 abs and another injury. Certainly his odds of contributing are lower. But I think if you believed the numerous reviews of people who liked his skills...its more likely vs not that he finds that again. At least to the point where he's again in the ML roster mix.

But he has to control what he can control and produce at this level first.

 

Mullins produced at AAA and even in a small taste of MLB before falling into a deep funk in 2019.  Showing you can do it at the higher levels is a pretty big difference.  Diaz has produced at AA but not AAA.

 

He's still got time, but not much.  I don't know if I can agree that I think it's more likely than not that he gets out of this funk and produces, but I think it's likely enough that he still gets every possible opportunity.  Even into next season, unless the AAA outfield is more crowded than I'm expecting.

[BobPhelan]

So yeah me calling him barely a prospect may be a bit too much but let me ask you. Any OFers in the organization that can pass him this year?? Obviously Cowser, but any besides him. Stowers, Rizer, Haskin, etc?

I still have him above Stowers and Haskin but the gap is shrinking for sure.

[Mike B]

I still have him above Stowers and Haskin but the gap is shrinking for sure.

I watched some of Bowie the other night and Stowers had a long home run.  I think Neustrom had one the same day too.