513 replies to this topic

[Mike in STL]

If they can't afford to buy him out because of the escalator then they can't afford to buy him out if the escalator were a cash bonus instead, because in both scenarios the same amount of money has left Maryland's Bank account.

Edit to add: that's not to say that I would agree with them choosing to extend him because he hit one escalator and then sucked the other 3 or 4 years. Rather I think that the excuse would be bulls***. Frankly the current buyout structure is about as school friendly as you can get while still holding weight as a real extension.

I think they can afford to give him $1M bonus in a given year if he hits a benchmark. What they can’t afford is to add that $1M to a later date, it’s not like they put it in a piggy bank for safe keeping. When they want make a change instead of $1M it’s $4.5M, $5.5M, whatever. And then have to come up with the money to replace him.

Bottom line is the new contract should have had no buyout protection at all. Or I think Mackus might have said like $500k, I’m fine with that so it’s not like he’s constantly looking over his shoulder.

[hallas]

I think they can afford to give him $1M bonus in a given year if he hits a benchmark. What they can’t afford is to add that $1M to a later date, it’s not like they put it in a piggy bank for safe keeping. When they want make a change instead of $1M it’s $4.5M, $5.5M, whatever. And then have to come up with the money to replace him.

Bottom line is the new contract should have had no buyout protection at all. Or I think Mackus might have said like $500k, I’m fine with that so it’s not like he’s constantly looking over his shoulder.

It makes no sense to me that they would be able to afford a 1 million cash bonus but they wouldn't be able to afford a theoretical 1 million escalator on his buyout. The latter wouldn't even come into play unless the school wanted to fire him. If the program, which is attached to a top-25 finance department, can prepare for the former but not the latter, then the program has bigger problems than their head coach.


Given that Turgeon gave up some current-year buyout protection for this extension, I don't think it's unreasonable for the buyout curve to be smoothed out so that it drops gradually over the duration of the extension. It's completely unrealistic to expect Turgeon to sign a deal that both reduces his buyout amount AND gives him no additional buyout protection past year 2. The contract details would almost certainly remain public and it would have the same effect on recruiting as if he signed no extension at all. And to imply that he would get a sweet 16 appearance and then just pack it in is laughable. Even with the escalator the buyout is still less than half of what he would earn if he didn't get himself fired. And if he attains multiple escalators before tanking then you could argue that he was worth the extension.

[Mackus]

Mike you are describing almost the exact opposite of how finance works.

I don't think the structure or timing of the money in this new deal is really relevant to the overall discussion, but you're getting that specific part of it backwards.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Is the $36M basketball performance center done being built yet?
https://www.baltimor...icwu-story.html
Also the naming rights are ridiculous. If we raise just a measly $10M we can name it the Baltimore Sports and Life Message Board Maryland Basketball Performance Center. I'm guessing Maryland thinks they are still a relevant program and some big corporation will just Venmo them $10M to put their name on the building. Like they are the Ravens or something.

The Chris Stoner Center for Kids Who Can Basketball Good

[Mike in STL]

Well, finance never was a strength of mine. I just feel like escalating his buyout amount locks him in even more, even if the math says six one way , half dozen the other. For four years we couldn’t move on because it would cost too much. I want him out, and he isn’t going anywhere. For the next four years it’s still going to cost too much to replace him. Especially if he hits an escalator or two right off the bat, then sucks for the years after.

[hallas]

Well, finance never was a strength of mine. I just feel like escalating his buyout amount locks him in even more, even if the math says six one way , half dozen the other. For four years we couldn’t move on because it would cost too much. I want him out, and he isn’t going anywhere. For the next four years it’s still going to cost too much to replace him. Especially if he hits an escalator or two right off the bat, then sucks for the years after.

If he hasn't hit any escalators by the end of year 2 I think he's gone. They will be able to buy him out for 3.5 million at that point and I think they would happily pay that price.0

[Mike B]

If he hasn't hit any escalators by the end of year 2 I think he's gone. They will be able to buy him out for 3.5 million at that point and I think they would happily pay that price.0

I agree with this.  Also if Turgeon wins the B10 or the B10 tourney, let alone getting to the Elite 8 or further, he should get a longer leash.  Any coach would.  

The way I look at it, Turgeon is the coach, I want to see him continue to bring in talent and see where it takes him.

[BSLZackKiesel]

IMS: Damon Evans explains Mark Turgeon's contract, desire for March success, recruiting aspect

https://247sports.co...ball-163915892/

[hallas]

So the language of the escalator is a bit unclear, but upon rereading the conttact details, it seems that if he hits even a single escalator his current-year buyout moves to the next year. Additionally, most of the milestones with escalators also have automatic extensions attached. So if he makes the sweet 16 next year with a $5 million buyout, his next buyout becomes 6 million, all subsequent buyouts are pushed back a year at +1m, and he gets a 1 year extension.

I am all for performance based incentives, but that really seems like a huge step up for a relatively small milestone. If he makes a final 4, his buyout escalates to the cap (3/4 of the remaining value) and he gets 3 years added to the deal, but of course it would be hard to argue that he isn't worth it at that point.

[Mike in STL]

Contract details The Sun found through FOIA.

 

https://www.baltimor...z3ya-story.html

[BSLMikeLowe]

March success and Mark Turgeon are like oil and water. We probably shouldn’t fear the escalators too much.

[hallas]

March success and Mark Turgeon are like oil and water. We probably shouldn’t fear the escalators too much.

He gets that same bonus if he wins a BTT or a BIG 10 Regular season title. He did the latter and then immediately after had to pull off the best coaching job of his career just to stay afloat because his recruiting got all sorts of messed up.

[You Play to Win the Game]

He gets that same bonus if he wins a BTT or a BIG 10 Regular season title. He did the latter and then immediately after had to pull off the best coaching job of his career just to stay afloat because his recruiting got all sorts of messed up.

The Big Ten was way down at the top last year is the only reason why. MD was good, sure, but last years MD team wasn't even close to as good as this year's Michigan or Illinois. Maybe on this year's Iowa's level.

My point is, he isn't winning the conference again anytime soon.

[hallas]

The Big Ten was way down at the top last year is the only reason why. MD was good, sure, but last years MD team wasn't even close to as good as this year's Michigan or Illinois. Maybe on this year's Iowa's level.

My point is, he isn't winning the conference again anytime soon.

 

It's really revisionist history to call 2019 a down year.  MSU and Maryland were both solid 3 seeds, with the possibility of making 2 seeds.  We had at least 4 or 5 other teams in the 4-7 range.  Wisconsin, OSU, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa.  I'd argue that 2 number 1 seeds is more a sign of the league being in an up year in 2020, rather than 2019 being a down year.  We would have had 7 or 8 tourney teams in 2019 too.  Besides, 2021 is a terrible year to call the B1G an up year for anything given the challenges in ranking teams and the fact that, for whatever reason, B1G's entire tournament contingent except for Maryland and Michigan got upset.

 

Specific callout to Michigan, I think Stix runs circles around Dickinson.  Smith was better in virtually every aspect of his game.

 

Finally, I think that, of the teams that improved, I think Iowa and Illinois are notable for having improved mostly by keeping a lot of upperclassmen.  I think they thrived because they were facing greener players due to early departures and graduations.  I don't think that they would nave necessarily played better against a team like the 2019 Terps.  And notably we split with Iowa in 2019 and went 2-0 vs Illinois.  Even in 2020, without a center, we split vs Illinois.

 

Turgeon's one semi-consistent strength is his ability to put together talented players on his roster.  I absolutely believe he can put similar talent on the floor again with his extension.  Whether he actually does something with it has always been the million dollar question.