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#41 DJ MC

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 09:06 PM

Buck should have more influence. Let the chef buy the groceries

 

It would be so funny if it came out that he was essentially doing so the whole time.


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#42 JordanKough

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:52 AM

It would be so funny if it came out that he was essentially doing so the whole time.

 

Kim is a great example of why you want multiple voices in the room and why this probably isn't true. 



#43 RShack

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 08:17 AM

Kim is a great example of why you want multiple voices in the room and why this probably isn't true. 

 

Right... you want smart people who know their stuff arguing about things... behind closed doors...  so that we never hear about it...


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#44 Miller192

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:24 AM

If Davies ends up being solid, then I think that's another big recent knock on the Orioles major league scouts (to go with Gonzo and Kim this year).  He always had good minor league numbers, but all the reports on him were that he wouldn't be able to get MLB hitters out (kind of like Tyler Wilson).

 

It will be interesting to watch his career.  He's got a 2.21 ERA since May 1st after 3 tough starts to the season.

 

It's tough to see these guys progressing through other organizations when we didn't get much of a return.


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#45 SportsGuy

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:52 AM

Buck should have more influence. Let the chef buy the groceries


Buck is the one who wanted your boy Wieters back

#46 SportsGuy

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:54 AM

I want nothing to do with a GM/manager in 1 deal..in any sport with anybody.

If Buck is so great, why didn't his teams win until after he left?

#47 SportsGuy

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:55 AM

If DD is a top 15 GM, it speaks volumes about how awful all the GMs are.

#48 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:59 AM

If DD is a top 15 GM, it speaks volumes about how awful all the GMs are.

Lol. Insane.

#49 bnickle

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:01 AM


Buck is the one who wanted your boy Wieters back

DD decided to offer the QO and Wieters while not good is better than AAA Joseph and Pena

#50 bnickle

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:03 AM

I want nothing to do with a GM/manager in 1 deal..in any sport with anybody.

If Buck is so great, why didn't his teams win until after he left?

They won while he was there. Watch how fast this team goes south the second he leaves.

#51 SportsGuy

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:08 AM

Lol. Insane.

Not really.  

 

I know fans around here got tired of the losing and they put DD on a pedestal because he is overseeing the winning.  I get that.

 

But look deeper than that.  What has he done that is so great?  The players he has brought in have been relatively mediocre.  He has added some good role players no doubt but acting like that is some amazing skill is a bit much IMO.  

 

The minor league system is still terrible.  He has traded away some good players for shitty players.  While they are doing an excellent job of developing defense, they aren't doing much else and there isn't any long term depth as of right now.

 

He took over a very good core, got lucky with some signings(Cruz and Pearce) and he has brought in a few good role players.  He also hasn't made any crushing FA mistakes although we will see what happens with Davis(probably more PA than DD though).

 

Ultimately, we don't really know how good or bad DD is because of the PA presence but this is a guy that was out of the game for 10 years.  Signing role players and getting lucky on a few FA contracts doesn't make you a top 15 GM IMO UNLESS the other people in the group are poor at what they do.



#52 bnickle

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:13 AM


If DD is a top 15 GM, it speaks volumes about how awful all the GMs are.

Absolutely. How people aren't critical of this guy is amazing. The last two years he gets a D at best. Come on.

#53 bnickle

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:16 AM

The one thing I remember Rob and I both saying very soon after DD was brought in and made a few trades was we were very scared he might make some bad trades. We made that trade for Teagarden and the Dodgers lefty and Shields effectively said he doesn't value his farm system enough even though these prospects might not turn out to be anything. That's been proven to be 100% correct.

#54 bnickle

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:18 AM

Not one Orioles fan should want DD making a trade. Big or small. That's for damn sure.

#55 Mackus

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:30 AM

The one thing I remember Rob and I both saying very soon after DD was brought in and made a few trades was we were very scared he might make some bad trades. We made that trade for Teagarden and the Dodgers lefty and Shields effectively said he doesn't value his farm system enough even though these prospects might not turn out to be anything. That's been proven to be 100% correct.

 

I think it's been proven that he doesn't value the guys on the farm system, I definitely agree that he treats all but a small handful of prospects as completely expendable.  Whether he values them "enough" is still TBD.  Definitely some mounting evidence with several guys he's given away for seemingly little in return having some success pretty quickly after leaving the system.

 

On the other hand, several of those guys we really lamented leaving did in fact do absolutely nothing.  I was apoplectic after he traded Nick Delmonico, who I was really high on, for two months of Francisco Rodriguez.  He immediately started sucking and was outright released by Milwaukee after 18 months when they had no roster crunch reasons for letting him go.


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#56 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:32 AM

I don't know how anyone can have been an O's fan during Angelos tenure as Owner, and not understand the multiple ways that impacts a FO. 


That has to matter in any evaluation.

 

Also think it's 100% reasonable to believe that Buck has had significant impact with roster construction.

 

What DD and Buck have done best together, is the regular extension of the roster, and finding a way to operate within the different constraints from above.

 

That said, I also completely agree that there are things which have been solely under Duquette's control, which he's done poorly and bears responsibility for.

For me, the primary issue remains the MiL system, and particularly the lack of international talent.



#57 SportsGuy

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:34 AM

I don't know how anyone can have been an O's fan during Angelos tenure as Owner, and not understand the multiple ways that impacts a FO. 


That has to matter in any evaluation.

 

Also think it's 100% reasonable to believe that Buck has had significant impact with roster construction.

 

What DD and Buck have done best together, is the regular extension of the roster, and finding a way to operate within the different constraints from above.

 

That said, I also completely agree that there are things which have been solely under Duquette's control, which he's done poorly and bears responsibility for.

For me, the primary issue remains the MiL system, and particularly the lack of international talent.

It does for me...even with that, I don't see any reason to think he is top 15 unless you think there are a lot of really bad GMs.

 

As I said,  I don't think we can properly evaluate him but if you grade him for what he has done here, I just don't see it as any higher than a C+.



#58 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:35 AM

I think it's been proven that he doesn't value the guys on the farm system, I definitely agree that he treats all but a small handful of prospects as completely expendable.  Whether he values them "enough" is still TBD.  Definitely some mounting evidence with several guys he's given away for seemingly little in return having some success pretty quickly after leaving the system.

 

On the other hand, several of those guys we really lamented leaving did in fact do absolutely nothing.  I was apoplectic after he traded Nick Delmonico, who I was really high on, for two months of Francisco Rodriguez.  He immediately started sucking and was outright released by Milwaukee after 18 months when they had no roster crunch reasons for letting him go.

 

And anyone who believes that Buck didn't have influence on using what was available in the system for immediate improvements to the 25 man roster is crazy imo.

 

Miller for Rodriguez is a deal everyone would do again.

(Want to criticize DD for not making any effort for resigning Miller, I completely agree... but that could have also been partly an issue from above.)

 

Parra for Davies looks poor... but there was an obvious hole, Parra looked like a reasonable bet to improve what existed... and Davies was 150lbs soaking wet, who was in the back of our Top 10.

 

The worst trade DD made remains Arrieta and Strop for Feldman, a deal nearly everyone here was for at the time.



#59 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:38 AM

It does for me...even with that, I don't see any reason to think he is top 15 unless you think there are a lot of really bad GMs.

 

As I said,  I don't think we can properly evaluate him but if you grade him for what he has done here, I just don't see it as any higher than a C+.

 

Over a 5 year period, the O's have the best record in the AL East.  Fair to credit Buck more, but he has to get some credit for that... and that includes with the deals he hasn't made.

 

(Frankly, the primary credit should go to there being more talent on the rosters the last 5 years than many have wanted to acknowledge.)



#60 bnickle

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:38 AM

It does for me...even with that, I don't see any reason to think he is top 15 unless you think there are a lot of really bad GMs.

 

As I said,  I don't think we can properly evaluate him but if you grade him for what he has done here, I just don't see it as any higher than a C+.

Yes, Im grading on a working for PA scale too. C+ is fine overall for his time here. Dont know how anyone gives him above a D since the end of '14.






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