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#81 DJ MC

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:42 PM

Does anyone think this is relevant in the least to the O's/Nats MASN saga? I'm sure Angelos is rooting for the Giants here.

The difference is the history involved.

 

MLB (really, the Senators/Rangers) abandoned Washington in the early-1970s. They left it to the Orioles and allowed them to build a market around both cities for thirty years, then tried to reclaim it as an open market which the Orioles balked at.

 

San Jose was originally part of Oakland's territory. In the early 1990s, the A's were doing very well while the Giants were desperately trying to build a new stadium before their owner felt the need to sell to an out-of-town group*. The A's gave up those rights so the Giants could hold a referendum for a stadium in the city, which ultimately failed. But now that the A's are struggling and the Giants are the strong, secure club, they won't offer the same courtesy in return.

 

<i>*Which almost happened. The Giants were finalizing a deal with an owner ready to move to St. Petersburg when Peter Magowon swooped in and outbid (with MLB's support) to keep the team in San Francisco. After already losing the White Sox thanks to Illinois politics, the city was so pissed off that MLB offered them a club in the next expansion to keep them from doing something drastic.</i>


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#82 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

Does anyone think this is relevant in the least to the O's/Nats MASN saga? I'm sure Angelos is rooting for the Giants here.

I don't think so. San Jose (and perhaps the A's by extension) actively want this to go to the courts, since Selig has shown no inclination to do anything but pick his nose on the issue. Hard as it might be to imagine, I don't think Angelos really wants to go to court, but he will if he feels that's his only option to enforce the agreed-upon deal. Furthermore, I doubt PA is at all upset about Selig dragging his feet on MASN, since it only serves to maintain the status quo.



#83 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

<i>*Which almost happened. The Giants were finalizing a deal with an owner ready to move to St. Petersburg when Peter Magowon swooped in and outbid (with MLB's support) to keep the team in San Francisco. After already losing the White Sox thanks to Illinois politics, the city was so pissed off that MLB offered them a club in the next expansion to keep them from doing something drastic.</i>

I believe that's similar to how the Mariners came to be as well, although in that instance I think they may have actually gone to trial and then came to a settlement during.

 

What ever happened to the proposed ballpark the A's were going to build in Fremont? That actually seemed like the perfect solution....it was just on the Alameda County side of the border, so no territorial dispute, but still close enough to San Jose that they could draw plenty of Silicon Valley folks.



#84 Oriole85

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

The difference is the history involved.

 

MLB (really, the Senators/Rangers) abandoned Washington in the early-1970s. They left it to the Orioles and allowed them to build a market around both cities for thirty years, then tried to reclaim it as an open market which the Orioles balked at.

 

San Jose was originally part of Oakland's territory. In the early 1990s, the A's were doing very well while the Giants were desperately trying to build a new stadium before their owner felt the need to sell to an out-of-town group*. The A's gave up those rights so the Giants could hold a referendum for a stadium in the city, which ultimately failed. But now that the A's are struggling and the Giants are the strong, secure club, they won't offer the same courtesy in return.

 

<i>*Which almost happened. The Giants were finalizing a deal with an owner ready to move to St. Petersburg when Peter Magowon swooped in and outbid (with MLB's support) to keep the team in San Francisco. After already losing the White Sox thanks to Illinois politics, the city was so pissed off that MLB offered them a club in the next expansion to keep them from doing something drastic.</i>

In the articles I've read regarding the territory rights, it seems very vague and there's discrepencies on both sides. Did MLB ever "declare" DC as O's territory in writing? I don't think the O's could legally block the Expos/Nats from coming here only if it was an AL team. However, they wanted to avoid this going to court, hence MASN.

 

It's funny how the Oakland situation back-fired. Clearly in hindsight, the A's owners should've put a time limit on it or something. Not to mention, just bad business on their end to help a competitor. I don't think any team would do that today.

 

Wasn't that the round after though? Didn't the Marlins/Rockies happen after the SF&WSox to TB failed moves?


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#85 Oriole85

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

I don't think so. San Jose (and perhaps the A's by extension) actively want this to go to the courts, since Selig has shown no inclination to do anything but pick his nose on the issue. Hard as it might be to imagine, I don't think Angelos really wants to go to court, but he will if he feels that's his only option to enforce the agreed-upon deal. Furthermore, I doubt PA is at all upset about Selig dragging his feet on MASN, since it only serves to maintain the status quo.

Likewise the Giants


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#86 Oriole85

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

I believe that's similar to how the Mariners came to be as well, although in that instance I think they may have actually gone to trial and then came to a settlement during.

 

What ever happened to the proposed ballpark the A's were going to build in Fremont? That actually seemed like the perfect solution....it was just on the Alameda County side of the border, so no territorial dispute, but still close enough to San Jose that they could draw plenty of Silicon Valley folks.

I think the referendum and/or funding fell through.


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#87 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:08 PM

I think the referendum and/or funding fell through.

Ok. I thought I read something about issues stemming from an environmental study (I think it was to be built on or near tidal wetlands), but funding sounds more plausible and is almost always the big hangup.



#88 DJ MC

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

I believe that's similar to how the Mariners came to be as well, although in that instance I think they may have actually gone to trial and then came to a settlement during.

 

What ever happened to the proposed ballpark the A's were going to build in Fremont? That actually seemed like the perfect solution....it was just on the Alameda County side of the border, so no territorial dispute, but still close enough to San Jose that they could draw plenty of Silicon Valley folks.

 

The referendum failed (there seems to be a pattern...:P), but also that was the California equivalent to building a stadium/arena in Columbia or Laurel to draw from both Baltimore and Washington. It wouldn't make anybody happy.

 

In the articles I've read regarding the territory rights, it seems very vague and there's discrepencies on both sides. Did MLB ever "declare" DC as O's territory in writing? I don't think the O's could legally block the Expos/Nats from coming here only if it was an AL team. However, they wanted to avoid this going to court, hence MASN.

 

It's funny how the Oakland situation back-fired. Clearly in hindsight, the A's owners should've put a time limit on it or something. Not to mention, just bad business on their end to help a competitor. I don't think any team would do that today.

 

Wasn't that the round after though? Didn't the Marlins/Rockies happen after the SF&WSox to TB failed moves?

 

I don't know if the territory was declared officially, but the Orioles spent 30 years building it into essentially an equivalent market to Baltimore. You can't just throw that away because you want to move a team there, especially when the league bylaws give the current club a 75-mile radius to control.

 

Also, the Marlins and Rockies began play in 1993, the National League awarded the franchises in June 1991. The Giants were still going to every city in the Bay Area they could get to hold a referendum.

 

By the way, I was slightly wrong on the details. The Giants were actually sold to Vince Naimoli (the eventual founder of the Rays), but the NL voted against the deal, allowing Magowon to come in with his own offer.


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#89 McNulty

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

Who the hell knew that San Jose has the 10th highest population for a city in the country?


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#90 DJ MC

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:29 PM

Who the hell knew that San Jose has the 10th highest population for a city in the country?

*Raises hand*

 

As an aside, did you know that after San Jose comes Austin, Jacksonville and Indianapolis? Next is San Francisco, but after that are Columbus, Fort Worth and Charlotte. Also ahead of Baltimore (#26)? El Paso, Memphis and Nashville. At least Baltimore has grown by 181 people since the last last census.


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#91 McNulty

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

*Raises hand*

 

As an aside, did you know that after San Jose comes Austin, Jacksonville and Indianapolis? Next is San Francisco, but after that are Columbus, Fort Worth and Charlotte. Also ahead of Baltimore (#26)? El Paso, Memphis and Nashville. At least Baltimore has grown by 181 people since the last last census.

 

Oh get bent, you did not know that.

 

The wikipedia page for it is fascinating.   


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#92 DJ MC

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

Oh get bent, you did not know that.

 

The wikipedia page for it is fascinating.   

I knew San Jose! Scout's honor! :)


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#93 Oriole85

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:16 AM

http://espn.go.com/b...let-the-as-move


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#94 DJ MC

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:52 PM

http://blog.sfgate.c...out-in-rundown/

 

When San Jose's lawyers attempted to serve Bud Selig papers for their suit, he dodged them. For three days.

 

I'm coming WAY too close to breaking my personal view on wishing particular fates on particular people.


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#95 Oriole85

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

http://espn.go.com/m...ched-sore-wrist


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#96 Oriole85

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:42 AM

CBS Sports: Bartolo Colon to hit DL, Tommy Milone will take his rotation spot

 

http://www.cbssports...s-rotation-spot


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#97 Oriole85

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:20 PM

ESPN: Catcher Kurt Suzuki returning to A's

 

http://espn.go.com/m...etics-via-trade


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#98 Oriole85

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:23 PM

ESPN: San Jose, MLB argue A's move

 

http://espn.go.com/m...s-proposed-move


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#99 Oriole85

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

ESPN: S. Jose's claims against MLB denied

 

http://espn.go.com/m...t-claims-vs-mlb


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#100 Oriole85

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:21 PM

CBS Sports: A's to pick up Coco Crisp's $7.5M club option for 2014

 

http://www.cbssports...option-for-2014


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