34 replies to this topic

[Markus]

I do think it's dumb that companies which have ties to baseball... say ESPN.... do such horrible jobs covering the game. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  "We cover it less (and not as good) because there is less interest." Which does nothing to help reverse those trends.

 

Or say NHL or soccer, which ESPN covers less because, in part, they don't have the broadcast rights to those Leagues.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Some of those points I disagree with, Chris, but the only one I have a real problem with is #2. It seems to me that on a very basic level, the two sports are almost identical in that respect.

 

You can watch both very easily on a "watch the ball" level, and both can be explained simply that way, but both also quickly dive deep into off-the-ball player movement and interactions that can make it complicated.

 

Maybe.

For the most part I hear people that don't know baseball talk about how boring the game is... to me, that is largely due to not understanding everything which is constantly going on which isn't spelled out for you.

There are things that people would miss about football, if they didn't really know the game...  but I think the game shows better on tv, and people can look for contact at the minimum.

Just my perception though.

[DJ MC]

Maybe.

For the most part I hear people that don't know baseball talk about how boring the game is... to me, that is largely due to not understanding everything which is constantly going on which isn't spelled out for you.

There are things that people would miss about football, if they didn't really know the game...  but I think the game shows better on tv, and people can look for contact at the minimum.

Just my perception though.

 

Fair enough about "boring", but I really wonder how much of that is just perception. We know that three hours of each sport will give you 11 minutes of action in an NFL game and 18 minutes in a baseball game.

 

Both sports are like bread. We think there's a lot of mass to it as we're consuming it, but it's really almost entirely air. But even the air itself contains a large portion, through smell and flavor, of what makes it great.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I think the only things which could greatly impact football's popularity are...

 

1) If the fear of concussions really changes the participation levels...

2) And if the product on the field (rules, talent) is changed enough that the game becomes less recognizable...

[mweb08]

Maybe.

For the most part I hear people that don't know baseball talk about how boring the game is... to me, that is largely due to not understanding everything which is constantly going on which isn't spelled out for you.

There are things that people would miss about football, if they didn't really know the game...  but I think the game shows better on tv, and people can look for contact at the minimum.

Just my perception though.

 

I think people call baseball boring because it largely is unless you have a strong rooting interest. 

[mweb08]

I think we will see a decline in youth participation, which in the long-term will negatively impact the league. Not saying it's going to be a huge effect, though.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I think people call baseball boring because it largely is unless you have a strong rooting interest. 

 

I guess.

I find a lot of the more interesting aspects of the game to not be in the direct action.

[mweb08]

I guess.

I find a lot of the more interesting aspects of the game to not be in the direct action.

 

Yeah, when watching the O's. Most people aren't going to be as into watching those aspects or the game in general of games that don't involve their teams or great importance. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Yeah, when watching the O's. Most people aren't going to be as into watching those aspects or the game in general of games that don't involve their teams or great importance. 

 

No.. not just when watching the O's... but yes, I agree that most people won't.

[DJ MC]

I think the only things which could greatly impact football's popularity are...

 

1) If the fear of concussions really changes the participation levels...

2) And if the product on the field (rules, talent) is changed enough that the game becomes less recognizable...

 

I've thought for a while that the former is the single biggest existential threat to the future of the NFL.

 

You don't have to play a sport growing up to appreciate it (I never played a down of organized football) but it helps. And, of course, it creates the talent pool for the next generation of players. If that talent pool starts to dry up, the league is going to come down to earth.

 

Now, I don't think that it would be enough to kill the sport. But think of where baseball is now compared to 50 years ago, in terms of youth participation and an aging fanbase, and realize that baseball doesn't have the moral issues (or at least as many) around fandom and also has an international talent pool to draw from that the NFL has never successfully tapped despite several attempts. I can see (and think the NFL does, too) a time where they are no longer the dominant force in pro sports, even if they may still technically be #1.

[DJ MC]

Yeah, when watching the O's. Most people aren't going to be as into watching those aspects or the game in general of games that don't involve their teams or great importance. 

 

I think the NFL is similar, but more people are willing to identify as that level of football fan so it again comes to perceptions.

[mweb08]

I think the NFL is similar, but more people are willing to identify as that level of football fan so it again comes to perceptions.

 

I think way more people are excited to watch the game of the week in the NFL compared to MLB, even if they don't have much of a rooting interest.

 

Baseball is more of a regional thing. People root for their team, otherwise they follow through watching highlights, fantasy, maybe a little MLBN or talk radio, but I don't think many consistently watch other games. 

 

Which is why it's funny when people put down the NBA on here. If there was a Baltimore NBA team an no Baltimore MLB team, I'm pretty sure there would be a significant local shift toward NBA fandom. If you have a team, the regular season is more compelling for any sport.

[RShack]

Some of those points I disagree with, Chris, but the only one I have a real problem with is #2. It seems to me that on a very basic level, the two sports are almost identical in that respect.

 

You can watch both very easily on a "watch the ball" level, and both can be explained simply that way, but both also quickly dive deep into off-the-ball player movement and interactions that can make it complicated.

 

You're right about how both need explanation if you wanna understand what's going on... but for those who don't, football has more existing visuals... in that respect, football is designed for TV...

 

Counterpoint: TV makes you miss a lot of football stuff that you need to see if you do wanna understand... it just focuses on the ball... so, most people who watch football on TV have no clue about what all is really happening because TV obscures that...  in contrast, understanding baseball is less about watching what happens not near the ball, and more about just grokking the layers of a given play or situation...

[Pedro Cerrano]

Shack you use the word "grok" more than any other human I've ever interacted with combined.

[RShack]

Shack you use the word "grok" more than any other human I've ever interacted with combined.

 

I guess that book had some impact on me...