109 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

Also how many adults accurately remember learning math in 2nd grade? Like really remember how they were taught, if the struggled or not, and how receptive they were to the process. I would say most people do not. They just know they learned it, they solve the problems a certain way, and that should be how it is forever because change is scary and it's easier to remain ignorant and complain than be open minded and learn something new.

To be clear, I agree with everything you've said.

My issue is in the politics of it and the bigger picture. It's a big problem IMO. The trends around this are disturbing.

[SportsGuy]

Ricker, do you feel too many things are "more important" than the actual education of the child?

[RShack]

To be clear, I agree with everything you've said.

My issue is in the politics of it and the bigger picture. It's a big problem IMO. The trends around this are disturbing.

 

This is sufficiently cryptic that I have no idea what you mean...

[SBTarheel]

This is sufficiently cryptic that I have no idea what you mean...

Agreed. I wish Ricker would expand a little on this. 

 

Politicians don't fire teachers, unless I'm missing something. 

 

I agree that there's absolutely too much testing, and I know they're taking steps to remedy that, at least that what the POTUS has said recently. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm just adamantly opposed to standardized testing... there are so many sub sects of our society that makes more stringent standards a bad idea. And I'm vehemently opposed to government funding "carrots" around these initiatives. While "Race to the Top" wasn't directly calling out Common Core... those who adapted Common Core were automatic eligible for the billions at stake through Race to the Top. I still don't think it comes close to adequately addressing the core issues at play in our education system. It's yet another fad to distract from the real issues.

I'm probably being a bit too much "throw the baby out with the bathwater" about this but I again, I don't think this will move the needle at all.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Ricker, do you feel too many things are "more important" than the actual education of the child?

Of course.

[mweb08]

Agreed. I wish Ricker would expand a little on this. 

 

Politicians don't fire teachers, unless I'm missing something. 

 

I agree that there's absolutely too much testing, and I know they're taking steps to remedy that, at least that what the POTUS has said recently. 

 

Of course they don't directly fire teachers, but it does feel like there has been a political war on teachers (more so in some places than others), which in turn, among other things, has been trying to make it easier to fire teachers.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'll admit I'm not well versed enough to have this debate. I apologize for throwing shit out there without being adequately prepared to defend my stance. I need to be better about that. I know how I feel about it but just am not comfortable articulating the details.

[RShack]

Of course they don't directly fire teachers, but it does feel like there has been a political war on teachers (more so in some places than others), which in turn, among other things, has been trying to make it easier to fire teachers.

 

That's the truth... it's a subset of the war on unions, but teachers have taken it on the chin, rep-wise... and in some places more than just rep-wise...

[Russ]

But the common core math methods are just new ways to go about solving the same problems. While K-12 math (it's arithmetic) used to be about memorization, this takes on a more problem solving approach that leads to better understanding. No offense, but most people that I know complaining about this don't know much about math. That's evidence enough that a new way of teaching math was necessary.

[Russ]

There's a world of cool and interesting math out there and people graduate high school thinking math is just arithmetic and a dreaded word problem on a test. That makes me sad.

[SBTarheel]

But the common core math methods are just new ways to go about solving the same problems. While K-12 math (it's arithmetic) used to be about memorization, this takes on a more problem solving approach that leads to better understanding. No offense, but most people that I know complaining about this don't know much about math. That's evidence enough that a new way of teaching math was necessary.

I just read this to my wife, and she said "THANK YOU, RUSS"...

 

Also, she said 'Who the hell is Russ", which was damn funny at the time. I referred to Russ as "my friend Russ", which confused her as she's never met a Russ in our 25 years together. 

 

#rambling

[SportsGuy]

Of course.

Right...in a nutshell, I think this is the bigger issue.

[SportsGuy]

There's a world of cool and interesting math out there and people graduate high school thinking math is just arithmetic and a dreaded word problem on a test. That makes me sad.

Interesting math? Was that a joke?

[SportsGuy]

Let's make kids use their minds for things that actually matter. That's a bigger deal than trying to find out 10 ways to answer a simple problem.

[Russ]

Let's make kids use their minds for things that actually matter. That's a bigger deal than trying to find out 10 ways to answer a simple problem.

That's what math is for and why kids should be learning it the right way.  To learn how to figure out logical solutions to problems, not memorizing multiplication tables.

[RShack]

Let's make kids use their minds for things that actually matter. That's a bigger deal than trying to find out 10 ways to answer a simple problem.

 

You're missing the point...   I learned arithmetic by memorizing multiplication tables and division tables... I can still see the pattern on the linoleum floor in the kitchen where I paced up and down while my Mom made me respond to flash cards until I could do it by reflex without having to think... now, I think that was fine, I did learn it... but as an adult I figured out ways to do arithmetic that I was never taught... ways that make solving actual everyday arithmetic things easier and faster to solve without needing a calculator or paper-and-pencil... '

 

I shouldn't have had to figure that out on my own, somebody should have taught me that stuff... but nobody did.  Why?  Because they taught exactly 1 way of doing it, that's why.  

 

If you're saying they should teach kids just 1 way of doing things, you're missing the point of education... because doing that is not education, it's just monkey training...

[SportsGuy]

That's what math is for and why kids should be learning it the right way. To learn how to figure out logical solutions to problems, not memorizing multiplication tables.

Sorry but this is bs(at least for what I would value). Just because you are a math guy doesn't mean much to the general public.

I do mental math all day long. It's fine and unless you use math in a certain way, it doesn't apply to real life. Yes, it helps you think and I agree that is important but giving kids classes on finance is way more important than teaching several ways to do a math problem.

[SportsGuy]

You're missing the point...   I learned arithmetic by memorizing multiplication tables and division tables... I can still see the pattern on the linoleum floor in the kitchen where I paced up and down while my Mom made me respond to flash cards until I could do it by reflex without having to think... now, I think that was fine, I did learn it... but as an adult I figured out ways to do arithmetic that I was never taught... ways that make solving actual everyday arithmetic things easier and faster to solve... '
 
I shouldn't have had to figure that out on my own, somebody should have taught me that stuff... but nobody did.  Why?  Because they taught exactly 1 way of doing it, that's why.  
 
If you're saying they should teach kids just 1 way of doing things, you're missing the point of education... because doing that is not education, it's just monkey training...

I'm not missing anything...I just don't agree. I think the time can be better spent.

My 10 year old nephew is going to an expensive private school. He actually has classes on
learning how to manage your money and things like that.

That should be in all schools. Teach the kids to make the same mistakes their parents do.

[Russ]

That's what math is for and why kids should be learning it the right way.  To learn how to figure out logical solutions to problems, not memorizing multiplication tables.

Sorry but this is bs. Just because you are a math guy doesn't mean much to the general public.


I do mental math all day long. It's fine and unless you use math in a certain way, it doesn't apply to real life. Yes, it helps you think and I agree that is important but giving kids classes on finance is way more important than teaching several ways to do a math problem.

It's not bs. You do mental arithmetic all day long. I'm not drawing a line from 40% of $1200 to problem solving ability.