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Talks set to begin on a new CBA


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#1 DuffMan

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:13 AM

For those that weren't aware the current agreement between the league and the NHLPA expires on September 15th. Here's a pretty good article from ESPN that is worth checking out. http://espn.go.com/n... ... -set-begin Here's a little tidbit that I found was pretty interesting.

How deep the sides dig in could go a long way toward determining whether the NHL becomes the third major sports league in the past two years to go through a work stoppage. The NBA played a shortened season with a condensed schedule after a labor dispute pushed the start of the season back to late December, and the NFL went through a lockout that wiped out most of the offseason training program a year ago and delayed training camp.

After having an entire season lost due to a lockout I find it hard to believe that both sides would risk another lockout, but with Donald Fehr on board now... Let's hope this gets done before any games are missed.

#2 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:13 AM

I agree. The NHL has steadily been on it's way back, but at a slow pace. Things like the Winter Classic, and the era of Ovi and Crosby have helped immensely. Another work stoppage would be a disaster, IMHO.

#3 Nuclear Dish

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:21 AM

There is very little talk of the possibility of a stoppage. Yes, Fehr is involved, and he'll push for improvement for the players. But by and large, there is very little chance of the sides going nuclear again this soon. It's expected to be fairly smooth sailing. The owners need to show Fehr and the players some token love, and the players need to toe the line more or less for now (after they pretty much lost the war the last time). Fehr knows he's still got a job as long as the players see some slight improvements in their conditions.

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#4 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:47 PM

An update from ESPN.Com on the first CBA proposal from the NHL. - http://espn.go.com/n... ... -givebacks

Here are the nuts and bolts:

According to multiple media outlets, the offer asked the union to take a 19-percent reduction in total hockey-related revenues, from their current 57 percent to 46 percent. The league's offer also limited contract lengths to five years, while forcing players to accrue 10 seasons -- regardless of age -- before becoming an unrestricted free agent, the reports said.

According to the New York Post, the league's plan would eliminate signing bonuses and would make salaries the same for every year of the contract. The Post also reported the deal would eliminate salary arbitration and would extend entry-level contracts by two years, from three to five."


Well, I'm not sure how you get a 57% to 46% gives the players a 19% reduction in revenue, so he kinda lost me there, but these are some really radical proposals.

I'd love to hear AS or DuffMan give a breakdown of this as I'm not nearly as well versed as the two of you are with this stuff.

On the surface, I'd say there's a 0% chance the new CBA resembles much of any of this if any of it at all. Your thoughts?

#5 JeremyStrain

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:53 PM

Initial talks are not very player friendly and the league really thinks they are going to stick to their guns. They want shorter max contract length to get rid of that salary cap loophole, and they want young players under control much longer. Basically they want less money for the players and to drastically reduce free agency. Itll be i teresting to see what the players have to say about this one. Going to be messy again.
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#6 DuffMan

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:03 PM

Wow I missed this offer. It's been a busy week. My wife gave birth to our second kid on tuesday (another girl!) and then yesterday was my best friends wedding, so I've been out of the loop a little bit here.

Here's a decent take from Burnside on the situation.
http://espn.go.com/n... ... ning-talks

No way that the players except this offer. The only reasonable point they bring up would be to close the loop hole in contracts, which involves giving teams giving players contracts for 10+ years when they only plan on playing for 7 or 8.

Everything else the owners asked for has no chance of reaching an agreement, let's just hope the owners are willing to give a little to get a little here.

Allstar is right this could get messy again. I'm just hoping that both sides really aren't stupid enough to miss regular season games. That is something the league needs right now.
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#7 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

Wow I missed this offer. It's been a busy week. My wife gave birth to our second kid on tuesday (another girl!) and then yesterday was my best friends wedding, so I've been out of the loop a little bit here.

Here's a decent take from Burnside on the situation.
http://espn.go.com/n... ... ning-talks

No way that the players except this offer. The only reasonable point they bring up would be to close the loop hole in contracts, which involves giving teams giving players contracts for 10+ years when they only plan on playing for 7 or 8.

Everything else the owners asked for has no chance of reaching an agreement, let's just hope the owners are willing to give a little to get a little here.

Allstar is right this could get messy again. I'm just hoping that both sides really aren't stupid enough to miss regular season games. That is something the league needs right now.


Good break down, and thanks for the link.

More importantly, congratulations on your new addition! Best of luck with everything.

#8 JeremyStrain

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:38 PM

Wow I missed this offer. It's been a busy week. My wife gave birth to our second kid on tuesday (another girl!) and then yesterday was my best friends wedding, so I've been out of the loop a little bit here.

Here's a decent take from Burnside on the situation.
http://espn.go.com/n... ... ning-talks

No way that the players except this offer. The only reasonable point they bring up would be to close the loop hole in contracts, which involves giving teams giving players contracts for 10+ years when they only plan on playing for 7 or 8.

Everything else the owners asked for has no chance of reaching an agreement, let's just hope the owners are willing to give a little to get a little here.

Allstar is right this could get messy again. I'm just hoping that both sides really aren't stupid enough to miss regular season games. That is something the league needs right now.

Congrats man. You feel my pain now, lots of estrogen in this house. Not looking forward to 10 years from now.
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#9 DuffMan

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

Thanks guys! Even if I count the dog (as boy ) I'm still outnumbered, but I couldn't be happier!! As far as the teenage years go, I'll cross that bridge when I get there...

#10 Don Quixote

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:26 AM

Well, I'm not sure how you get a 57% to 46% gives the players a 19% reduction in revenue, so he kinda lost me there, but these are some really radical proposals.


On the surface, you might think it's only an 11% decrease, but that's only true of the total. They would have 11% less of the total, but their own share decreases as a proportion of itself by 19%. For just a second let's use slightly easier numbers to demonstrate. Say there's something you have a 50% share in, then something happens and you only have a 40% share. Fifty percent being five tenths, and forty percent being four tenths, you now have one less tenth of the total, but one out of the five tenths you had is gone, so your share is now 20% less as a proportion of itself. Hope that makes sense.
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#11 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:28 AM

On the surface, you might think it's only an 11% decrease, but that's only true of the total. They would have 11% less of the total, but their own share decreases as a proportion of itself by 19%. For just a second let's use slightly easier numbers to demonstrate. Say there's something you have a 50% share in, then something happens and you only have a 40% share. Fifty percent being five tenths, and forty percent being four tenths, you now have one less tenth of the total, but one out of the five tenths you had is gone, so your share is now 20% less as a proportion of itself. Hope that makes sense.


Yep, makes perfect sense... Thanks man, appreciate it.

#12 DuffMan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:24 AM

Update
http://espn.go.com/n... ... erproposal

The Players' Association still has not received all the financial documentation -- primarily the independently audited information for the league's clubs -- requested from the NHL and has no intent to submit a proposal until that information is received and then analyzed.

"The players have not received all the financial documentation" Now where have I heard that before....
I guess the important thing is that both sides are still talking/negotiating. Hopefully they are able to get something done so that no games are missed.

#13 JeremyStrain

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:28 AM

Update
http://espn.go.com/n... ... erproposal

"The players have not received all the financial documentation" Now where have I heard that before....
I guess the important thing is that both sides are still talking/negotiating. Hopefully they are able to get something done so that no games are missed.


It's a MESS right now. Players are bitter, and think the owners are banking that the players won't let another stoppage happen. I understand the need to curb the huge contracts, but wrong approach.
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#14 DuffMan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:27 AM

It's a MESS right now. Players are bitter, and think the owners are banking that the players won't let another stoppage happen. I understand the need to curb the huge contracts, but wrong approach.


Yeah, you can tell things aren't great right now. It seems to come up during comments both sides are making. The comments may be subtle but you can tell they aren't happy. One of the ones that seems to keep coming up is, "I don't think we'll have another lockout, but it could happen"

#15 JeremyStrain

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

Yeah, you can tell things aren't great right now. It seems to come up during comments both sides are making. The comments may be subtle but you can tell they aren't happy. One of the ones that seems to keep coming up is, "I don't think we'll have another lockout, but it could happen"


Yeah, to even mention the L word this early is no bueno.
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#16 FlavaDave10

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:25 AM

It's a MESS right now. Players are bitter, and think the owners are banking that the players won't let another stoppage happen. I understand the need to curb the huge contracts, but wrong approach.


Exactly. I knew Bettman would find a way to mess this up. On a side note, anyone know if the players will want something in there about being allowed to play in the Olympics?

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#17 DuffMan

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:07 PM

Exactly. I knew Bettman would find a way to mess this up. On a side note, anyone know if the players will want something in there about being allowed to play in the Olympics?


http://espn.go.com/n... ... -cba-talks

Sigh, this is not looking good at all.

#18 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

http://espn.go.com/n... ... -cba-talks

Sigh, this is not looking good at all.

Yikes! :shock:

#19 DuffMan

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:39 AM

Well a month after the owners made their initial offer the NHLPA is set to make their counter offer today. They plan on releasing many of the details to the public so I'm interested to see whats in there.

#20 FlavaDave10

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:41 AM

Well a month after the owners made their initial offer the NHLPA is set to make their counter offer today. They plan on releasing many of the details to the public so I'm interested to see whats in there.


The players offer was weaker than what I thought it would be. I have a gut feeling that it gets done if Bettman can swallow his pride and let the players play in the 2014 Olympics. I still think that's a must for the NHLPA to sign off on anything.

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