5819 replies to this topic

[Old Man]

What is in HR-8? Just the background check stuff. Or 800 more pages of where to senselessly spend money that has zero to do with gun laws? Like most of the bills proposed in our broken system.

exactly, poorly written pieces of paper that does nothing to change the real issue on hand.

 

it gives people something to jump on their soapbox and whine about.

 

I dont have a problem with back ground checks and the right to bear arms.

 

I think its foolish to believe people with illegally obtained guns care about HR-8, they arent playing by the law to begin with.

 

Another case that comes to my mind, was the amish school children, sandy hook, I think was the name.

 

If I remember right, the kid broke into his parent's legally obtained weapons, which was legally stored in a locked gun cabinet.

 

HR-8 would have had zero impact in that case.

[mweb08]

What is in HR-8? Just the background check stuff. Or 800 more pages of where to senselessly spend money that has zero to do with gun laws? Like most of the bills proposed in our broken system.

Seems like it's limited to more background checks.

And yes, our system is broken, but that's in large part because one side literally wants it to be. Also our founding document ain't nearly as great as some people claim.

[Mike in STL]

While HR-8 might close the gun show loophole, it does nothing to prevent these heinous acts from happening. Bad people will get guns somehow and do bad things.

Pass the bill, yes. But it doesn’t address the problem.

[mweb08]

While HR-8 might close the gun show loophole, it does nothing to prevent these heinous acts from happening. Bad people will get guns somehow and do bad things.

Pass the bill, yes. But it doesn’t address the problem.

It helps. Other things would also help. Instead we'll do nothing acting like this is an impossible problem even though plenty of other nations have solved it.

[mweb08]

https://twitter.com/...ZCv0EqLUAQ&s=19

[Mike in STL]

It helps. Other things would also help. Instead we'll do nothing acting like this is an impossible problem even though plenty of other nations have solved it.

I’m actually curious. Did other countries ever have huge gun violence problems, then solved them? Or were guns really never an issue to begin with. Cause it’s easy to say other countries have this figured out, when in reality it might have never been a thing that needed figuring out.

Parts of the world can’t even “figure out” basic human rights. Maybe not figuring out gun violence is our thing. Not an excuse though. We have smart Americans who could figure it out. But our bought and paid for, out of touch with the world government certainly won’t.

[Mackus]

https://www.google.c...ritain.amp.html

[mweb08]

I’m actually curious. Did other countries ever have huge gun violence problems, then solved them? Or were guns really never an issue to begin with. Cause it’s easy to say other countries have this figured out, when in reality it might have never been a thing that needed figuring out.

Parts of the world can’t even “figure out” basic human rights. Maybe not figuring out gun violence is our thing. Not an excuse though. We have smart Americans who could figure it out. But our bought and paid for, out of touch with the world government certainly won’t.

We haven't exactly been great on human rights either. And yes, as you said, other countries failure in this regard is not an excuse.

I disagree with the last part. I mean there's some truth in that, but there are people in our government that are smart, in touch with the world around them, plenty capable, and well intentioned. However, we have a system and an electorate that prevents more of those people from getting elected (or being empowered if hired rather than elected).

Anyway, Mack addressed your question.

It's also important to recognize though that this was not a huge problem in the not so crazy past, and we as a country have chosen to do little to nothing about it as it's gotten much worse. We can throw our hands up and say there's nothing we can do or we can try.

[Mike in STL]

https://www.google.c...ritain.amp.html

Well there you have it.

But what I guess I mean is, despite some of those tragedies in other countries, gun violence was never rampant like here. For example, Australia’s homicide rate per 100k people in 1980 was 0.8, lowering to 0.3 by 1995. Americas was around 10.1 in 1980 and is cut in half by 2015.

I guess what I figure is that other counties where gun violence wasn’t prevalent, it’s not surprising they haven’t had a mass shooting in decades cause it’s not what they do anyway, regardless of the laws.

While I’m all for passing the same laws here they did in other places, I still think gun violence is what we do. America never admits fault. Australia went from 0.8 to 0.3. America wouldn’t go from 10.1 to 4.9 to 0.3.

[Dupin]

I'm ready to turn mine in, if that's what has to happen to solve the problem.

[mweb08]

Well there you have it.

But what I guess I mean is, despite some of those tragedies in other countries, gun violence was never rampant like here. For example, Australia’s homicide rate per 100k people in 1980 was 0.8, lowering to 0.3 by 1995. Americas was around 10.1 in 1980 and is cut in half by 2015.

I guess what I figure is that other counties where gun violence wasn’t prevalent, it’s not surprising they haven’t had a mass shooting in decades cause it’s not what they do anyway, regardless of the laws.

While I’m all for passing the same laws here they did in other places, I still think gun violence is what we do. America never admits fault. Australia went from 0.8 to 0.3. America wouldn’t go from 10.1 to 4.9 to 0.3.

While related, these mass shootings are separate from more conventional homicides. While policies and actions directed at reducing mass shootings can also help with reducing more conventional homicides, I agree they (what is more realistic at least) won't be very effective. I think we could get to very effective at deterring mass shootings though if we wanted, just as others countries do.

[Mackus]

I always think about all the suicides that could be prevented if we had much stricter laws and access to guns.  Handguns are the most common there, so they wouldn't be exactly the focus of legislation geared towards reducing mass shootings with rifles, but still should help.  You hear all the time about someone who attempted suicide by some other method and then recovered and went on to live much more happily after receiving help.  Not many "pleas for help" via pistol, so these people don't get that opportunity to bounce back.

 

And when thinking about implementing new laws, I usually think about more regulation rather than outright bans.  I think we should treat guns like cars.  You have to pass a test and prove you are capable of operating a car.  For more complicated and dangerous cars, there is further testing.  You have to periodically prove that your car is functional and maintained well and you still have the physical skills to operate it.

[NewMarketSean]

I always think about all the suicides that could be prevented if we had much stricter laws and access to guns.  Handguns are the most common there, so they wouldn't be exactly the focus of legislation geared towards reducing mass shootings with rifles, but still should help.  You hear all the time about someone who attempted suicide by some other method and then recovered and went on to live much more happily after receiving help.  Not many "pleas for help" via pistol, so these people don't get that opportunity to bounce back.

 

And when thinking about implementing new laws, I usually think about more regulation rather than outright bans.  I think we should treat guns like cars.  You have to pass a test and prove you are capable of operating a car.  For more complicated and dangerous cars, there is further testing.  You have to periodically prove that your car is functional and maintained well and you still have the physical skills to operate it.

Agree but the counterargument to that is that there is no BOR that guarantees you the right to drive. There is one to own a gun.

[Mackus]

Agree but the counterargument to that is that there is no BOR that guarantees you the right to drive. There is one to own a gun.

 

Absolutely, but regulation of that right is also included right there in that same amendement.  So if we're only talking about regulating the right, I think we're in the clear in terms of constitutionality without needing anything drastic such as an amendment or for the Supreme Court to change their traditional interpretation of that amendment.

[NewMarketSean]

Absolutely, but regulation of that right is also included right there in that same amendement.  So if we're only talking about regulating the right, I think we're in the clear in terms of constitutionality without needing anything drastic such as an amendment or for the Supreme Court to change their traditional interpretation of that amendment.

Believe me I am with you but the other side views any form of regulation, regardless of how common sense or how desperately we need it, as an affront to their constitutional rights.

[Mike in STL]

Believe me I am with you but the other side views any form of regulation, regardless of how common sense or how desperately we need it, as an affront to their constitutional rights.

And those people are wrong.

[NewMarketSean]

And those people are wrong.

They are, but they are many and they are strong.

[russsnyder]

I always think about all the suicides that could be prevented if we had much stricter laws and access to guns. Handguns are the most common there, so they wouldn't be exactly the focus of legislation geared towards reducing mass shootings with rifles, but still should help. You hear all the time about someone who attempted suicide by some other method and then recovered and went on to live much more happily after receiving help. Not many "pleas for help" via pistol, so these people don't get that opportunity to bounce back.

And when thinking about implementing new laws, I usually think about more regulation rather than outright bans. I think we should treat guns like cars. You have to pass a test and prove you are capable of operating a car. For more complicated and dangerous cars, there is further testing. You have to periodically prove that your car is functional and maintained well and you still have the physical skills to operate it.

This is a great post.

I couldn't agree more.

Suicidal people sometimes commit murders before they take their own lives. It's not really that great a leap if you are that despondent.

While I respect the Second Amendment and one's right to own a gun. I think the car/driver's license analogy is excellent.

We need more safety training regarding firearms and the process to own a weapon (particularly a handgun) should be just as involved as obtaining a driver's license.

[You Play to Win the Game]

What’s more is most Americans agree on common sense gun reform actually. Even the right. But the politicians are controlled by special interests, as are the right wing media (and all media to be clear, but I’m talking about this issue), and they make sure no progress is made. As I get older I pay more and more attention to the way information is provided in this country and it’s such a huge hindrance to progress. It’s modern oppression.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Gun control is an issue that needs to be worked out. The bigger issue IMO is what is making these mostly young men/ boys want to commit mass murder.