https://baltimorespo...-over-chargers/

https://baltimorespo...-over-chargers/

Wouldn't mind seeing Macdonald as our next HC. I'm over Harbaugh. Not challenging two obvious first downs that were poorly marked, but challenging a play that clearly wasn't a forward pass is a level of idiocy he's never been to before.

Wouldn't mind seeing Macdonald as our next HC. I'm over Harbaugh. Not challenging two obvious first downs that were poorly marked, but challenging a play that clearly wasn't a forward pass is a level of idiocy he's never been to before.

 

Harbaugh said something in post game about how the officiating crew didn't spot the ball clearly or quickly to give them a chance to figure it out.  I am willing to buy that maybe they screw up, but I think that's a lame excuse because they tried to quick-snap both times.

Harbs exact words were "We thought it was a first down in all honesty. We thought it was ruled a first down, we thought it was a first down. It wasn't until after the next play that we realized it was short..."

That is unacceptable. That should be headline news across the league and talking head shows. But again John gets a pass because they won.

Harbaugh said something in post game about how the officiating crew didn't spot the ball clearly or quickly to give them a chance to figure it out. I am willing to buy that maybe they screw up, but I think that's a lame excuse because they tried to quick-snap both times.

The 2nd time they truly thought they had the 1st down and clearly should have been rewarded the 1st. It was obvious NA got the first. So they were going fast. That was their 1st down play. John or someone up top shouldve realized the chains in time but Monken was going fast. Woulda been nice if someone on the field, especially the QB, had realized it. Prob couldve audibled into a play that wouldve got the first

Lol. He just said it should be headline news across the league. My god. Ricker is right, some of y'all really need to watch the overwhelming majority of coaching in this league.

Harbs exact words were "We thought it was a first down in all honesty. We thought it was ruled a first down, we thought it was a first down. It wasn't until after the next play that we realized it was short..."

That is unacceptable. That should be headline news across the league and talking head shows. But again John gets a pass because they won.

 

Re: the Jackson scramble, he thought it wouldn't get overturned.  He has a point - ball location on out-of-bounds plays like that is difficult to overturn because the spot is where the ball is located when Lamar crosses the boundary plane, which is really difficult to determine.  The location when he steps out of bounds isn't all that relevant.

 

 

He said that the officials and pressbox both signaled first down on the Agholor play, so this is probably what he was talking about.

 

On out of bounds plays I wouldn't mind making the rule more reviewable by saying the spot is the location of the ball when the first step out of bounds is.

Re: the Jackson scramble, he thought it wouldn't get overturned. He has a point - ball location on out-of-bounds plays like that is difficult to overturn because the spot is where the ball is located when Lamar crosses the boundary plane, which is really difficult to determine. The location when he steps out of bounds isn't all that relevant.


He said that the officials and pressbox both signaled first down on the Agholor play, so this is probably what he was talking about.

On out of bounds plays I wouldn't mind making the rule more reviewable by saying the spot is the location of the ball when the first step out of bounds is.

Well if the official really signaled 1st then thats not on Harbs or anyone else. Refs are a total waste. Its disgraceful how the most watched, clear #1 fan sport has such awful officiating. Nor are they trying to do anything technologically to improve the product. Its so arrogant. Fans need to demand better all around but they dont.

Well if the official really signaled 1st then thats not on Harbs or anyone else. Refs are a total waste. Its disgraceful how the most watched, clear #1 fan sport has such awful officiating. Nor are they trying to do anything technologically to improve the product. Its so arrogant. Fans need to demand better all around but they dont.

 

 

More info from Monken's media session:

 

Apparently one of the officials was pointing downfield as if it were a first down, but in actuality he was pointing at the spot, not signaling first down.  Kind of a stupid ref signaling error.  Why the pressbox also showed first down is a mystery to me.  Monken also said that they were playing hurry-up so the combination of the screw-up and the hurry-up led them to run a play without really understanding what down it was. 

More info from Monken's media session:

 

Apparently one of the officials was pointing downfield as if it were a first down, but in actuality he was pointing at the spot, not signaling first down.  Kind of a stupid ref signaling error.  Why the pressbox also showed first down is a mystery to me.  Monken also said that they were playing hurry-up so the combination of the screw-up and the hurry-up led them to run a play without really understanding what down it was. 

The All-22 isn't up yet, but I wonder what it will show. The nearest referee on the broadcast was pointing down at the spot, to his left, not downfield, while making the "wind the clock" motion with his other arm. Can't confuse that with a first down signal. Lamar also thought they got the first. After the timeout following the 3rd down play he was saying to Harbaugh "I thought we got the first"

Lol. He just said it should be headline news across the league. My god. Ricker is right, some of y'all really need to watch the overwhelming majority of coaching in this league.

 

I say this as someone who has never quite loved Harbaugh...  as someone who think's a lot of Coordinators on his watch have faced the chopping block with him avoiding it....  who questions him plenty on game day....  etc....   I think the criticism of Harbaugh has become a bit much. 

The Ravens have underachieved as an organization in the post-season since the last Super Bowl.
Part of that certainly falls on John.
But the Ravens also are like Top 8 overall in wins over the last decade.
They are consistently good.
The organization is solid, and he's a part of that.
Part of what he does outside of game day has to be part of the equation of why the Ravens are consistently good.

The Ravens are in position for a potential SB run here.... if he rightfully gets blame for some in-game decision making, he should rightfully get some credit for where the Ravens are overall.

He obviously has a strong working relationship with the Front Office.

Ownership has been in his corner. 
Organizational stability means something. 

 

He's 61 now.  I guess it's realistic to ask how long he wants to do this?
And if the Ravens fell apart the remainder of this season (or were ousted early in the post-season); I think there would be a lot of people saying now was the time for a change.  I might say that as well. 

But the truth is you could do a lot worse than Harbaugh, and if he was let go by the Ravens after this season...    and still wanted to Coach, he'd have his pick of jobs. I suspect if he does decide to stop being the the HC, he'll stay with the organization in the FO in some capacity.

I say this as someone who has never quite loved Harbaugh... as someone who think's a lot of Coordinators on his watch have faced the chopping block with him avoiding it.... who questions him plenty on game day.... etc.... I think the criticism of Harbaugh has become a bit much.

The Ravens have underachieved as an organization in the post-season since the last Super Bowl.
Part of that certainly falls on John.
But the Ravens also are like Top 8 overall in wins over the last decade.
They are consistently good.
The organization is solid, and he's a part of that.
Part of what he does outside of game day has to be part of the equation of why the Ravens are consistently good.
The Ravens are in position for a potential SB run here.... if he rightfully gets blame for some in-game decision making, he should rightfully get some credit for where the Ravens are overall.

He obviously has a strong working relationship with the Front Office.
Ownership has been in his corner.
Organizational stability means something.

He's 61 now. I guess it's realistic to ask how long he wants to do this?
And if the Ravens fell apart the remainder of this season (or were ousted early in the post-season); I think there would be a lot of people saying now was the time for a change. I might say that as well.

But the truth is you could do a lot worse than Harbaugh, and if he was let go by the Ravens after this season... and still wanted to Coach, he'd have his pick of jobs. I suspect if he does decide to stop being the the HC, he'll stay with the organization in the FO in some capacity.

I was always neutral with Harbaugh. Never excited he was our coach, never upset that he was. He's a top head coach, all things considered. But sometimes the marriage runs its course, and a separation is needed. Me personally, I'm at that point with Harbaugh. Too many blown leads, too many dumb mistakes, too many games being lost due to flat out being out-coached when it matters most.


I doubt anyone would argue Andy Reid's excellence. Even most Philly fans. But his time ran its course, and both needed to move on. It happens. I think the Ravens jumped on Macdonald, viewing him as the eventual replacement for Harbaugh. He very well may be earning that right this season. Very rarely has he made the wrong calls, or got out-maneuvered on game day. He's created a defense that has brought out the best in Patrick Queen, Brandon Stephens and Geno Stone.


I will say, I don't want to move on without a solid option in place. With Macdonald, I think the Ravens have that. Ultimately, I think Harbaugh has earned a little longer tenure. It's just very frustrating watching the same mistakes, over and over.

I know you could do worse at head coach. We see a lot of terrible game / situational management across the league every week.

I'm happy to take a chance on someone else. We know what John does poorly on game days, as it's been the same every year since about day one. It won't change, he won't change.

Admitting you didn't know what down it was until the next play is insanely incompetent. Just one in a 100 examples over his tenure. Done with it, tired of it. Would kill to see them give someone else the keys to what is annually a very good roster handed over by DeCosta and company.

John likes to say and focus a lot these days on "players win games". Of course they do. The flip side is players also lose games. Nobody wins at this level without a talented roster (and especially a competent QB). Belichick is prime example 1A through 10Z of that.

But coaches CAN make a small difference and tip the scales in a close game with how they manage the game in front of them. He doesn't do a good job of that.

I say this as someone who has never quite loved Harbaugh... as someone who think's a lot of Coordinators on his watch have faced the chopping block with him avoiding it.... who questions him plenty on game day.... etc.... I think the criticism of Harbaugh has become a bit much.

The Ravens have underachieved as an organization in the post-season since the last Super Bowl.
Part of that certainly falls on John.
But the Ravens also are like Top 8 overall in wins over the last decade.
They are consistently good.
The organization is solid, and he's a part of that.
Part of what he does outside of game day has to be part of the equation of why the Ravens are consistently good.
The Ravens are in position for a potential SB run here.... if he rightfully gets blame for some in-game decision making, he should rightfully get some credit for where the Ravens are overall.

He obviously has a strong working relationship with the Front Office.
Ownership has been in his corner.
Organizational stability means something.

He's 61 now. I guess it's realistic to ask how long he wants to do this?
And if the Ravens fell apart the remainder of this season (or were ousted early in the post-season); I think there would be a lot of people saying now was the time for a change. I might say that as well.

But the truth is you could do a lot worse than Harbaugh, and if he was let go by the Ravens after this season... and still wanted to Coach, he'd have his pick of jobs. I suspect if he does decide to stop being the the HC, he'll stay with the organization in the FO in some capacity.

Some want to talk about how a baseball manager runs his clubhouse. IMO how a HC runs his program is more important in football. Where as in baseball I think in game decisions play a bigger part than what a HC does in football. Though I dont think managers and their decisions are more important necessarily than the playcallers. OC and DCs. Funny enough, that is rarely the HC. But having a top class well run "program" is where Harbaugh shines. Hes a leader of men. On a personal level, I think he often is a pompous ass but he gets a lot out of his players and they respect him.

The grass isnt always greener is so cliche and played out but it really applies here. The chances you find someone to run as good or better of a team is slim to none. Anyone who says they want to take that chance is flat out wrong. They are. Sometimes people hit on 18 when they see the dealer has a K. Its undeniably the wrong decision though they might get lucky and get an A, 2 or 3.

I think Harbaugh is a very good coach but I also think that his flaws are ones that he's incapable of changing.  The team is always good and that's in large part because of him.  But the team also frequently disappoints and that's also in large part because of his game-day decisions.  It's infrequent that teams move on from really good coaches because they "can't win the big one" or whatever, but if Harbaugh doesn't get back to at least a championship game in the next year or two, I think Bisciotti pulls the trigger.  I can't criticize anyone who's seen enough of the flaws to think they are fatal flaws and are ready for a change more immediately than that.

Are two playoff wins in 10 years acceptable metrics for Harbaugh being coach for life?

Some want to talk about how a baseball manager runs his clubhouse. IMO how a HC runs his program is more important in football. Where as in baseball I think in game decisions play a bigger part than what a HC does in football. Though I dont think managers and their decisions are more important necessarily than the playcallers. OC and DCs. Funny enough, that is rarely the HC. But having a top class well run "program" is where Harbaugh shines. Hes a leader of men. On a personal level, I think he often is a pompous ass but he gets a lot out of his players and they respect him.

How convenient.

Re: the Jackson scramble, he thought it wouldn't get overturned.  He has a point - ball location on out-of-bounds plays like that is difficult to overturn because the spot is where the ball is located when Lamar crosses the boundary plane, which is really difficult to determine.  The location when he steps out of bounds isn't all that relevant.

 

 

He said that the officials and pressbox both signaled first down on the Agholor play, so this is probably what he was talking about.

 

On out of bounds plays I wouldn't mind making the rule more reviewable by saying the spot is the location of the ball when the first step out of bounds is.

 

 

They need to change these out of bounds stretching the ball rules. If Jackson stretched the ball out before stepping out does the ball get placed there .? On sideline plays it seems not to work that way. But on dives toward the endzone with the players body in the air way out of bounds, as long as you hit the plylon with the ball its a TD.

Harbaugh isn't a play caller. No excuse for not knowing the situation, always. No excuse for not keeping your QB in line with a quick note in crucial times or being ready to challenge a play because your face isn't buried in the play sheet instead. Knowing the clock, doing the math, using the timeouts efficiently. No one is perfect, but it is pretty much any game that they are not winning by 20+ where he can coast a little, those mistakes show up and are compounded by the tight score, keeping inferior teams in the game. 

 

When I said in the game thread this was one of the stupidest games I've ever seen, I meant it. Between the refs, Staley tried to say he didn't know what down it was, even though the ref said, "It's 3rd down", the guy holding the marker got it wrong. Then Harbaugh doing his usual thing. Not challenging easy misses. Challenging a bad one. Lamar taking a sack/fumble moving out of FG range, AGAIN. Then with 7 seconds left throws a quick pass OB. Giving the Chargers a few seconds to throw a shot to the end zone. Can you run backwards for 3 seconds then throw the ball high and deep OB to run the clock out? Can you punt so the hang time runs out the clock save for maybe 1 second, which they will certainly kneel down from 80 yards away? It's not rocket science.

 

Maybe he thinks telling Lamar, "You can't take a sack here," is micromanagement, and we know he empowers his guys like he's a nice guy office manager. But there is a reason baseball players all communicate the number of outs to each other after each out. You definitely don't want to forget. Situation is important. It's not because they like playing captain obvious with each other. I remember an interview with Steve Mariucci where he said before each drive, they would say to all the people with headsets. "If we score here, we are going for 1" (or 2) depending on that card people relied on before analytics. Including the opening kickoff. In Steve Youngs ear, "If we score here, we're going for 1." Stupid as it sounds, it's habit, it's attention to detail. If you're that tuned in to a mundane detail, you'll be tuned in to the ones that matter. Like what not to do on 3rd down at the edge of field goal range. Instead, Harbaugh is out there after a score like, "you want to go for two here?" It has to be important before it happens. You can't just do it on the fly. Everything has to be important before it happens. Think two, three, four steps ahead. 

 

Credit for the wins, consistently being a contender. Sure. I get it that we gush all over the players when they win a game like 38-6 instead of being like, "great game, coach!" 

 

It's, whatever. This has been a talented team for a long time with too many instances of self-inflicted wounds that costs them playoff seeding, home games in January, playoff games in general. For every dropped pass or turnover that costs them a score, or a game, there are just as many coaching blunders doing the same. Too much "we need to execute better". Well, you won't until you make things important before they happen.